Thread: Microscopes When Does Magnification Become Too Much of a Good Thing ?

I was doing a trade with a forum member involving a couple of hones to me. I wanted to make it an equitable swap and I threw in a razor. Nothing special but a good solid shaver. I had honed it and it passed HHT and gave me a good smooth shave. I did examine it with my 30x B&L stereoscope and the edge looked just fine.

When my friend received it he emailed and said that he looked at it with 200x and the edge had micro chipping. I was mortified. What would the neighbors think ? So I told him (kidding) that if he only used 30x his honing would improve dramatically. Upon further reflection I came to the conclusion that my response, humorous intent aside, was actually somewhat valid.

Two recent ebay examples, this week I received a Revisor 8/8 from the mfg in Germany that was pre honed to shave ready at the factory and a Boker King Cutter that was also advertised as shave ready.

Upon examination under the 30x both showed anomalies/defects in the edge. I stropped and shaved with each of them on successive days and got excellent shave out of both. Each of them had passed HHT before the shaves with the Boker passing all along the blade and the Revisor here and there but not for the full length.

The Revisor under the 30x didn't seem to have the bevel set completely. At least it was not as complete as it would have been if I was honing it. Still it gave a decent shave.

In honing many razors for the past year + I have noted that I got adequate, sometimes even excellent, shaves from my early efforts and upon later examination they wouldn't be acceptable to me (visually under 30x) now.

So I'm thinking that 200x is counter productive and wondering if there is an optimum power with which to evaluate the honed edge ? OTOH, am I a slacker and should my edge look perfect under the 200x ? Just wondering what y'all think about this question and would appreciate hearing of your conclusions based on your experience.

I only own a stereo mic with up to 80x and I never even go that high as the eyepieces I need to use for that mag have a narrower field of view. I use the 40x for virtually all inspection.

My personal opinion? If my edges look like I want them to at 40x (which tells me everything I need to know) and they pass the shave test, I don't really care what the edges would look like at higher mag save for the sake of novelty.

I'm actually agreeing with thebigspender regarding resolution vs. magnification. I think he has a fancy Nikon stereo mic. I have a good quality high quality optic mic probably nowhere near his, but at 40x, my mic is in a different universe from the plastic Radio Shack 100x handheld I originally started with.

Chris L

I don't own one, I shave test.

My next door neighbour works in a jewlers and I have been tempted to ask her if they have any old loupes nocking around, I think it could be helpful to have a 30x and be more certain when I shave test.

200x might be a self fulfilling proficy type thing, it looks great under a 200x mic so you believe the shaves are better - shaving is so subjective I could see this happening.

on one particular razor I had I saw 2 monster pitting-holes through the edge of the bevel but it was a fantastic shaver, possibly my best


I sold it some time ago, pits right through the edge and all

fact is if the new owner looked at 30x he might see them
if he looked at 150x he would squeeze out a little hershey kiss in his shorts

there were only 2 pits, but it shaved so well that I didn't see the point in honing them out

sometimes the microscope is bad, sometimes good

for example
all that talk about cerium oxide?

I'll be able to look right at the bevel and see exactly what is happening and how fast/smooth it cuts

I have a ridiculously cheap little microscope not unlike the radioshack one, 60x to 100x. I generally use it on 75-85x (est.) because with the limited focus control and the way I hold the scope to the edge, I get a repeatable/useful angle of the light reflection off the bevel. I do find the scope to be a useful tool. I don't obsess about what I see too much, but I do find it helpful to tell whether or not I'm hitting the entire edge with the particular stone, and to see how fast the stone I'm using is removing the previous scratches. It also gives me an idea of how well each particular finishing stone polishes.

I did get a 20x loupe too, one of the $10 or $20 ones or whatever it was on ebay. I don't like it at all compared to the microscope. I honestly can't see anything much better in it than I can with my naked eye and the razor right in my face. I'm not sure if it's a result of the magnification level or of the optic quality.

I am kind of curious how much better my scoping experience might be with better optics, but I'm getting by just fine without investing that kind of money into a better scope.

I have a very basic microscope thats for kids actually (Intel Play).
It does 10 x 60 x and 200 x but its so difficult to focus that I hardly use it.
Its interesting to look at your work now and then but its almost impossible to check every blade in its entire length and from both sides.
The time is better invested in honing.
Sometimes I use it when I want to see what a new hone can do.
What I can not see under the microscope is the last bit of breadknifed edge, cause the ankle just doesn't let me.
Thats something I can better see without or just feel.
Maybe it would be different with one of the radio shack type of scope.

I'd like to nip this in the bud.

I was at the Mid-MO meetup last Saturday. At one point I sat at a table with my microscope in front of me and Lynn honing beside me. As he switched between razors, he'd pass me the other for me to examine under the scope. I got to watch the edges progress during the honing. Though my scope's maximum magnification is 64X, I generally stay around 30X.

Lynn knows how to hone razors.

When he was finished with them, I could still see what could be considered "micro-nicking" on the edge. I honestly believe that for general honing evaluation, excessive magnification will just confuse the issue. Remember, the purpose of these razors is for shaving. If you hone a razor to straight line perfection, the only way to keep it that way is to oil it up and lock it away. If you shave with it, you are going to get "micro-nicking" very quickly anyway, so there is a point where making the edge absolutely perfectly straight during honing is kind of pointless.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I'd like to nip this in the bud.

I was at the Mid-MO meetup last Saturday. At one point I sat at a table with my microscope in front of me and Lynn honing beside me. As he switched between razors, he'd pass me the other for me to examine under the scope. I got to watch the edges progress during the honing. Though my scope's maximum magnification is 64X, I generally stay around 30X.

Lynn knows how to hone razors.

When he was finished with them, I could still see what could be considered "micro-nicking" on the edge. I honestly believe that for general honing evaluation, excessive magnification will just confuse the issue. Remember, the purpose of these razors is for shaving. If you hone a razor to straight line perfection, the only way to keep it that way is to oil it up and lock it away. If you shave with it, you are going to get "micro-nicking" very quickly anyway, so there is a point where making the edge absolutely perfectly straight during honing is kind of pointless.

Yeah, I think a lot of my edges have that micro-chipping, micro-nicking, whatever you call it. But they shave smooth and are sharp as anything. I don't worry about that part. With the scope I'm only concerned about the shininess of the bevel

Just a corollary here. If you took an air sample an magnified it through an electron microscope you would never want to breath the air again.

Too much of a good thing is not a good thing. I keep my mag work on razors to about 36x. I can see all I need to at that power.

I bought one of those $10 Radio Shack microscopes and examined every single edge I could get my hands on while honing... and to my surprise, discovered I couldn't get the scratch patterns out at 60x... tried everything.

Eventually I realized, if those long dead shavers got along just fine without so much as a jewelers loupe, then so should I?

I now use the scope to examine only problem blades.