Thread: Swaty provenance

No what he is saying is the Wahring bei Wien (Austria) was made until 1888- Wien is the German name for Vienna (and is pronounced Vahr-ing buy Veen) so that is what he means buy vienna/austria

Originally Posted by khaos

No what he is saying is the Wahring bei Wien (Austria) was made until 1888- Wien is the German name for Vienna (and is pronounced Vahr-ing buy Veen) so that is what he means buy vienna/austria

Karl, if you're correct in that interpretation of Clavichord's conclusion than that would make these hones I have pre 1888. I have a hard time with that. Not that it isn't possible but I just don't think it is probable. I got my short one in Kearny, NJ in the '80s from an old Newark barber (in his 70s) He had an extra besides the one he routinely carried in the pocket of his barber's smock. I know that he wasn't into antiques and assume he had bought his from a barber supply salesman somewhere along the way.

I guarantee you Wahring bei Wien means Wharing at/near Vienna. 100% sure of it. And your own instructions say that the Fraz Swaty Wahring bei Wien was only used till 1888, then it became Maribor. I can't say for sure, but the evidence points that way.

Originally Posted by khaos

I guarantee you Wahring bei Wien means Wharing at/near Vienna. 100% sure of it. And your own instructions say that the Fraz Swaty Wahring bei Wien was only used till 1888, then it became Maribor. I can't say for sure, but the evidence points that way.

Very interesting. I've seen 2 line Swatys marked Marlbor or was it Marburg ? I've also seen ebay Swatys marked Yugoslavia or something similar. That would be really cool if my Swatys were that old but either way the coolest aspect is how well they work.

Here's the thing. Slovenia was part of Austria until around WW1, can't remember the official split time, when it became part of the state of Slovenes Croats and Serbs. This went on and Slovenia was traded around: the state of S C & S became the KINGDOM of S C & S, whihc became the Kingdom of Jugoslavia, which was occupied by Germany Hungary Italy Croatia at various points in its life and eventually became indepent in 1991. Anyways.
So the Wahring bei Wien (Austria) stones were made by his father, up to 1888, we know this. Then, I suspect his son's stones were labelled Marburg Austria, up until the split from Austria. This is why: just as Wien is German for Vienna, Marburg is German for Maribor. I suspect once Slovenia gained independance from Austria/changed hands to Slavic rule(1900s European politics... so confusing) he probably changed the name on the hones to Maribor. Any hone marked Jugoslavia is no older than 1929 (the first time Jugoslavia was actually the name of that area.)

So this is my best shot.
We are quite certain because of the stamping that Franz Swaty Wahring bei Wien (Austria) is pre 1888 because of his father. I would guess that Franz Swaty Marburg Austria is from 1888 to 1918 (end of WWI marked end of the Austrian empire and thus a LOT of territory loss). From 1918 to 1929 I'm not sure what it would be- I'm not sure whether Marburg/Maribor changed hands or when it did. But anything stamped Maribor Jugoslavia or anything Jugoslavia for that matter is post 1929 as that is when Jugoslavia was formed.

Thanks, khaos: things are finding some order.

Just for the record, the map linked in the first post (dating 1870) can be used to locate Marburg, in the region called Styria (close to "Austria", which is just one part of the Empire of Austria). [the map can be zoomed]

Those instructions coming with some hone, linked by JimmyHAD, should therefore date after 1929 since this is the year when the term Yugoslavia started to be used.

That is correct. He said that came with a long swaty, and to my knowledge... I believe the long ones were Jugo's.

The term Jugoslavia may have been used to denote an area or something, but the state was only officially called that in 1929.
Marburg looks quite far from Austria, relatively, so I wouldn't be surprised if they had to surrender it with their 1918 losses. I will try and ask my Grandfather, he is very well versed in Bavarian and Austrian history- though only the parts of Austrian history that pertain to Bavaria (as he claims half of Austria is rightfully Bavarian and should be given back lol) By the looks of it Marburg doesn't seem to be close enough to Bavaria to be in his scope, but its worth a try. Also, if it was at any point controlled by the Wittlesbach lineage, there may be some info in the Wittlesbach library which from time to time he gets permission to read in. I doubt it though.

Hey guys, check this out, a stone stamped Franz Swaty, Maribor Jugoslavia fruher Marburg Austria! Fruher in German means earlier or formerly!
The puzzle is falling into place!