Thread: Could use some help...

Originally Posted by FloorPizza

OK, I'm gonna spill it...

No matter how hard I concentrate, and how slow I go, I just cannot get my strokes across hones accurate enough. Honing is very good physical therapy, but it gets damn discouraging to spend hours on a blade without getting great results...


So I'm considering an alternative... I seem to still be getting fairly good results off of my pasted paddle strop. It's just not as fussy about perfect technique. So I'm thinking about getting another four sided paddle strop and pasting itwith 1k, 2k, 4k, and 8k equivalent diamond pastes.

Any suggestions on setting up pasted strop alternatives would be more than welcome.

Well... I'm a bit run down from the day so this may be a bit jumpy.

1) If you go to using pastes in lower grits than those used for polishing you will need to think of a way to get the metal removed off the blade off the strops. Rubbing metal on metal is not good when trying to achieve the edge required for a good shave.

2) Until you get better use of your hands back try to limit your honing to hollow grinds with a narrow bevel to reduce the amount of metal that needs to be removed.

3) What kind of hones do you have? When I hone on a Norton 8k I can see the metal removed gets heavy and loads the hone fast when the blade has softer steel and I find that most of the Sheffield blades are softer steel. Hone blades with softer steel for a while. Also avoid smiling blades.

4) I was a Tool and Die Maker for many years and when I work metal I instinctively look for the end results as quickly as I can achieve them. I enjoy honing but that is not where the rubber meets the road, getting the hair off you face smoothly is so let's change your approach a little. When setting your bevel get as much metal off as quickly as you can with the least amount of effort. When you finish setting the bevel it should be cutting hairs on your arm at skin level all across the blade length. The fastest way I have found to achieve this is moving the blade in circles or back and forth along the hone. Put your index finger on the spine if needed to apply a bit of pressure. This works best with one hand after yo get used to it. I do this by time and not lap counts. Something like 30 seconds per side or a minute per side. Use the marker test first to be sure the blade is not warped. If it is, this method will not work well or will result in uneven hone wear and uneven bevel. After your time on each side do a few seconds more per side just to break and burrs. Now do a few X strokes per normal honing and then the TNT. Once you get the edge to 'bite' over the entire edge do 15 to 30 seconds in circles per side, something like 10 X strokes and test for cut on arm hairs. Repeat the last step as needed until it cuts arm hairs. Now you have a good edge on the coarsest hone you are using and the majority of the metal has been removed the fastest. The rest of your hones will just be polishing the bevel and refining the edge. On the next hone up in your progression start by doing circles or back and forth strokes until you bevel's scratch pattern matches the hone you are using. This usually take a minute or two per side for me. Then do the x strokes for ~ 10 strokes and test the cut on arm hairs again. Repeat the circles and X strokes until the entire length of the blade cuts hairs again. Once you finish on your 8k hone you can move to your finisher. I believe I recall you have Shapton hones. I haven't tried the circles on anything higher than 8k. I leave that up to you. This would be where you pastes can be used if you get better results. Yo will have to experiment.

I realize this process is a bit different than a lot of people use for honing. The process works well for blades that are not warped and will hone the complete bevel when the blade and spine are on the hone. It does get more complicated when the blades have unique characteristics and most blades have at least one, so you will need to address those by altering how the blade rests on your hone while working the edge.

This is a starting point and not the final solution for each and every blade out there. It is only a suggestion your your experimentation but I can tell you for sure that it works very well for me. I haven't honed thousands of blades but I have worked metal for over 20 years to super fine finishes and tolerances as close as +_.0002 inches in normal environments and +-.00005 in a controlled environment. I hope this helps you.

Joed, thanks for that... I may not have complete coordination yet, but I do believe I can keep some circles under control.

I'm going to go try this method right now.

Oh, btw.. yeah, I do have Shaptons.. glass, 1k, 4k, 8k, 16k, 30k. Also a few coticules, some DMT's, a Swaty, a bunch of diamond papers, and a Chinese 12k.. but I can stop *anytime* I want to. Well, after I get my Japanese Natural finisher, that is.

The "One Coticule Honing" method has giving me the best results recently, but it's still just not up to standard.

On the bright side, I spent two hours straight with my paddle strop and a Torrey I recently restored. I just got done shaving with it, and it went very well. I now have a really good shaver to tide me over til I can get proficient again.

Originally Posted by jbcohen

What do you mean getting your strokes acurate enough. I am trying to learn honing and this gets me a tad worried.

OMG, thats it! I'm never posting on the importance of this ever again. Obviously the first 1000 posts didn't make my point!

Joed, I was able to put a wicked edge on a Red Injun RP (short blade, no warp) using your method. Thank you.

The X stroke is really my main limitation. I'm capable of doing heel-leading, straight down the hone strokes as well as circles, but X's are still pretty far away, I think. So I'm pretty much limited to honing perfect blades with no smiles for a while.

I did finish up a Torrey (small smile), but I had previously taken it to 4k. It took me two hours on pastes to do it.

Originally Posted by FloorPizza

I did finish up a Torrey (small smile), but I had previously taken it to 4k. It took me two hours on pastes to do it.

Something good may come of your misfortune. Through your current and future experiments with honing on pastes you'll be able to document the how and what works best in using pastes as a honing medium rather than just using them to enhance a blade after honing.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Something good may come of your misfortune. Through your current and future experiments with honing on pastes you'll be able to document the how and what works best in using pastes as a honing medium rather than just using them to enhance a blade after honing.

Good way to look at it, Jimmy. I like it.

I believe Tony Miller once said that every shave ready razor he ever sold he had sharpened on pastes.