Thread: Desperate Honesterette

Originally Posted by kevint

Or maybe you are lucky enough to photograph an anomaly observed/theorized by Lenord Lee(Complete Guide to Sharpening)


I don't have the book myself, but have heard about it second hand. He says man-made stone's binder can be too strong...so rather than releasing single particle grits; they can remain clumped together, acting as a much larger abrasive particle.

Hi Olivia. Some great advice so far but I thought I might reinforce this point by kevint . Also some stones are worse offenders than others for this irregular or clumped particle phenomenon. So at Japan-tool discourages the buying of certain brands for razor honing because of this.
Your pics seem to show some larger scratches in the 8k range then things smooth out more with the Escher & then some irregularity appears again with the pastes & film. You possibly have more than one stage to address but if lighter pressure on the hones doesn't help it may be the stones fault.
I had a similar problem at pastes & stropping level but to be honest the shave was not affected. I believe there were some random particles in the homemade paddle & strop I was using at the time & have since discarded them. Bear in mind you strop in the opposing angle to honing - if you X pattern - and even small scratches will look ugly because they are in a different plane.

Originally Posted by 0livia

Thanks, dear! I'm really a bit dissappointed about myself, thats all.

Why waste time being disappointed, now you have a new goal! You know you are good at what you do, in a few days time you will be even better!

Hey Olivia,
Your post made me go back and do more experimenting with polishing the bevel. Caveat: I am pretty darn sure it really doesn't affect shave quality, but what the hey, I've been experimenting all summer, why stop now.

Pics are worth more than my text, so I'm just going to get right to it.

I took pictures of both my wonderedges, which were finished with my new method. Two DAs that I'm currently experimenting with, I actually BK'd them and put a whole new edge too, so the results on those are interesting. Originally, I just took the original edge the owner put on it and ran it on an 8k for a little bit and then finished it on two different mediums. I have 2 DAs in case anyone was wondering. And finally, I took pictures of my honing with my old stones. I'll add commentary as I post the pics.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/da-01.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/da-02.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/da-03.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/da-04.jpg

The first picture is the DA with the original edge and only my finishing methods. I did 20 laps on the 8k to make sure it was sharp. Either case, that experiment's results will come later.
The second picture is the same DA only redone completely from 1k through 16k, and finished with cerium oxide. Third and Fourth are just difference zooms and angles.


http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ing/da2-01.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ing/da2-02.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ing/da2-03.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ing/da2-04.jpg

Same thing with this DA. Except the finish is from a Spyderco UF, no pastes.

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/we-01.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/we-02.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/we-03.jpg
http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ting/we-04.jpg

These are two wonderedges. One is finished with cerium, and one is finished with the UF. Same process as the DAs. These pics are included because I took them last night and they were a PITA to take, and I want to show off my camera skills. Moving on...

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...g/wedge-01.jpg

This one is the interesting one. This is an example of the polish my previous stones used to give. As you can see, quite "scratchy." Still shaves great though.


Test results and conclusion:
As you can see, my old hones left a ton of scratch marks. However, the edge is just as good, well, my new blades are better, but thats because I have some better finishing stones & products. At the 8k level its the same.

The Nani 12k actually leaves a better polish than the S16. Weird, I know. However, the UF erased all the scratch marks from the 16k; as did the cerium.

Anyway, I don't really have any advice for you, other than: its probably your stones. It was for me.

Olivia,

I agree with the bulk of people here - the lighting is misleading. There is no way that there wouldn't be visible scratch marks at some angle. Is it too late to get another pic at a different angle?

Your pictures 7, 9, & 10 look the best. I think there will always be stray scratches, and even more so with natural stones, since they will always have anomalies. Synthetic hones, as you know, remove a lot of the inconsistencies and progress more systematically.

Going in the same motion on all the stones when honing also lends itself to not fully "erasing" the deeper scratches left by coarser stones. Changing the angle with each stone is something I usually do in my other sharpening, both to create an even edge, and for cosmetic purposes.

I also agree with Khaos. I've found that after about 2K, the clarity of stray scratches is greatly increased by the contrasting shallower scratches of the finer grit stones.

Once again thank you very much, guys!
You're quite encouraging!

Leighton those photos are good to see.
How did you make them? Through a loupe?
Wonderedge three and four are about what I normally see as well.
Lighting may make a little bit of a difference.
So I'll try to make a couple more pics today.
Also of the masterfully honed blade and compare then.

Yeah, I don't agree that those magnification shots are the end all be all of honing (but thats not to say I don't think that they have use). I had my doubts about what they told you when I first saw those shots by that knife guy of the scratch patterns from the various finishing hones. The shapton 16k looked worse then both the chinese 12k and the Spyderco UF. And as everyone is so fond of pointing out here, the shave test is really what matters.

That being said, I have played around with stropping with a good metal polish to get rid of some of the scratches before using finishing hones, and it seems to give pretty good results.

the picture is nice to watch but to understand what is going on Please guys provide information what magnification are you using to see bevel.
My second inquiry will be to Olivia . As we can see you have made at least 10 blade second bevel and put up picture.
I want to know how have you done it. exact number of tape .
Example
you put 1 st layer electric tape and set the bevel etc etc etc--stop at 1200 example doesn't matter
after first bevel set how many layer of tape you have add to make second bevel?

Now let me explain why i am asking this.
i did set bevel on the blade (1 layer electric tape)and bring it almost shave ready condition .
then i added second layer to set the secondary Bevel.

OOPs you know what happen?
after making 20 laps on norton 8k i did get secondary bevel but edge wasn't satisfying sharp enough
then i did continued approximately 40-60 laps checked the edge what i see there is no more secondary bevel it is all gone and only simple bevel.

I can understand you can great adding 3 or more layers of tape and great secondary bevel which will get shaving sharp enough edge.
But i want to know how did you do it .if you have add only 1 layer and how is your edges sharpen enough for shave?
you have 10 of them now shouldn't be hard to answer. Thank you appreciate.
Then i add only

Sham I did not tape at all this time.
The second bevel (if there is) is from the strop.

thank you i see now.
i was thinking it does have secondary bevel . i guess i get confused with some scratch marks on the blade

I do not believe residual scratches to be a result of too much pressure...

more likely; too little.

A little bit more directed pressure at the start of each hone, using a variety of directional strokes, from back and forth scrubbing, edge parallel "side sharpening" to X strokes on each hone serves to erase scratches and average out "stroke error" and bias.

Obviously do not use too much at the start of each(especially @1k) and finish with Just Enough