Thread: micro-serrations and stroke path

I am very new to razors and have a question or two about honing:

Am I correct is assuming that the x pattern most razor afficionados use causes the edge "teeth" to angle towards the tip of the blade, thereby necessitating a slight tip down shaving stroke?

If one were to hone his razor on a benchstone directly perpendicular to the edge would that change the shaving stroke angle? Is it acceptable to do so? The best edge I have to date is using this technique.

I don't see a lot of talk about burr raising and remmoval on the SR sites and am wondering if it's a factor in sharpening razor blades.

Thanks for your help.

I'm no honemeister here but it would just seem to me that with the actual edge of the blade being so thin and delicate if you honed perpendicular to the edge unless you have some kind of contraption to clamp the blade in place and ensure a minimum of pressure while honing there would be too much of a chance to really ruin the edge. I know you say you get good results and everyone has their own way of doing things that works better for them but unless I'm not understanding the perpendicular action it just doesn't sound right to me. I guess I don't qiute understand how you control the consistancy of the honing action your way.

In straight or x honing your putting minimum pressure on the edge and the strokes ensure the right contact with the stone. If burrs develop or a wire edge a little back honing usually takes care of it.

I probably didn't do a good job of describing the honing action I was referring to. I meant that I would maintian the correct bevel angle by resting the blade on the hone but keeping the edge paralell to the small end of the stone rather than on a bias. I would then make a straight push stroke down the stone and reverse.

Other honers have said the've tried it both ways and have had success with either. I've noticed (using a heel leading at 45º and the whole blade on the hone for the entire stroke) two things:

1. The heel of my blade is generally sharper than the tip. (reason to actually "X" stroke off the stone? I'm planning on trying to see.)

2. Especially by also stropping with the heel ahead of the toe or at least even, the hanging hairs will split easily when pushing with the point leading slightly and not so easily with the heel leading so it follows that the blade should shave easier that way.

I shave with the toe leading, heel leading and a "straight push" depending on the orientation of the blade and contour of the face and although all work well with a keen blade, I think the closest and easiest passes are when the toe leads. A lightly scything motion is also easy to controll and effective.

In response to your question; a slight cutting angle is what is recommended by the barber's manual in the Files section (have you read ALL of that stuff yet?) and should probably be aimed for.

That's just my 2¢. I've only been at this for a couple of months but being a little obsessive compulsive (just a character observation, not a medical diagnosis) I won't let anything go until I have the answers I'm looking for and will try it all to be sure.

X

Welcome to the group! Your questions are very normal and here is my best answer. The X pattern can be seen by looking at my avatar. The bottom half of the blade actually comes off the hone. This stroke was developed to be used on the small classic barber hones. Some people use it now even on the 3" wide Norton stones and others. With this stroke there can be a problem , over the long haul, with uneven honing. That is addressed in the barbers manual in the archive.

You are currently honing with your blade perpendicular to the hone (90 degrees). A lot of people use that and are satisfied with the results. Some of us who use wide stone do almost the same thing but we slant the toe (tip) of the blade back about 15-45 degrees. This will give a slant to the microserrations (scratch pattern) on the blade that also results from using the X pattern. The optimum angle of the microserrations has not been determined as far as I know. ALL THREE METHODS WORK!

If you are so inclined and have enough razors go ahead and try all three and see what feels the best on your face. Thats the real test.

Some good animations and graphics of honing and stropping are available. Just send me your email and I will send them to you if you wish.

Hope this helps,

Raising a burr is generally not an issue with straight razors because you roll(flip) the razor at the end of each stroke on the hone.

"If you are so inclined and have enough razors go ahead and try all three and see what feels the best on your face. Thats the real test."

Well that's the best damn advice I've heard in a long time. And I get to buy more razors and sharpen them! Win Win.

Thanks Randy

YEP! I have taken that view point to an extreme. I did an inventory/oiling last week. I now have ~ 200
razors! Now I can try out all my hones and the different methods!

Thanks Randy. I have sent you a PM wiht my email for the animations.

I use Camelia oil for my knives. I assume that's fine for Razors?

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Welcome to the group! Your questions are very normal and here is my best answer. The X pattern can be seen by looking at my avatar. The bottom half of the blade actually comes off the hone. This stroke was developed to be used on the small classic barber hones. Some people use it now even on the 3" wide Norton stones and others. With this stroke there can be a problem , over the long haul, with uneven honing. That is addressed in the barbers manual in the archive.

You are currently honing with your blade perpendicular to the hone (90 degrees). A lot of people use that and are satisfied with the results. Some of us who use wide stone do almost the same thing but we slant the toe (tip) of the blade back about 15-45 degrees. This will give a slant to the microserrations (scratch pattern) on the blade that also results from using the X pattern. The optimum angle of the microserrations has not been determined as far as I know. ALL THREE METHODS WORK!

If you are so inclined and have enough razors go ahead and try all three and see what feels the best on your face. Thats the real test.

Some good animations and graphics of honing and stropping are available. Just send me your email and I will send them to you if you wish.

Hope this helps,

Sorry Randy if I am abit dense but want to make sure I understand. I have a Norton 4X8K. Instead of letting the bottom edge come off the stone, I would angle the tip of the blade back 15 to 45 degrees then push the blade down the stone keeping the entire blade in contact with the stone for the hole time. Turn it over and repeat the process. That is the way I strop of course with the back leading on the leather. If this is correct it may actually work better for me. I have to use two hands on my razor to keep the tip on the hone throughout the entire stroke now and with this method I would not have to worry about the tip coming off the stone. Will let you know how it works. I have a Fil that is giving me fits right now and I am trying everything to get it so it does not yank each facial hair out one by one.

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