Thread: Pyramid Honing

It's been a while since I covered this, so I thought it would be good go go over how I use the pyramids when honing.

The main thing to remember is that it really helps to make sure you have a proper bevel on your razor before going to the pyramids. You can see me setting a bevel with circles on the web cam we did at the NC Gathering. Do you have to? Not every time depending on the razor, but generally, it's really the best thing to do to help you get to that edge that will shave nicely.

Another thing about the pyramids is that they are basically guidelines and people have used them as they are with success as well as experimented and used similar methods with varying stroke counts that have worked for them.

Are pyramids a scientifically sound process based on laboratory testing along with basic honing, granular structure and metallurgy principles? Absolutely! I have conducted extreme analysis on pyramids and written at least 5 journals and 3 thesis papers on the subject. Pyramids are beyond any question an incremental process of improving a razors edge to shavability. Unfortunately, there was this fire and all my data was destroyed or I would be attaching it here for your scrutiny. Dang, I hate when that happens!

So, when I think pyramids and by the way, I didn't invent this process; it was taught to me by the first honemeister Don Walters. Oh yeah, pyramids. Here are the pyramids that I use for carbon razors:

25 Strokes on 4K 25 Strokes on 8K
20 Strokes on 4K 20 Strokes on 8K
15 Strokes on 4K 15 Strokes on 8K
10 Strokes on 4K 10 strokes on 8K
5 Strokes on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K
3 Strokes on 4K 3 Strokes on 8K
1 Stroke on 4K 3 Strokes on 8K
1 Stroke on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K

That is pretty much it. It is important to use basically just the pressure of the blade on the stone. I use an X stroke and try to make sure that I keep the blade very flat through out the stroke and make sure I keep the pressure even though out the stroke. Spine and edge of the razor on the stone with even pressure at all times. This does take a little practice, but usually can be picked up pretty easily.

I can use a 45 degree angle X stroke for blades with badly flattened or uneven spines, wedges and smiley or frowning blades and it seems to work very well as it helps keep the edge on the stone throughout the stroke.

No I don't start every razor at the top with 25 strokes. Normally I will work from 15 strokes down and sometimes try working from 10 strokes down on new razors. If you have a razor that seems like the bevel is OK, you can start at the 25 strokes, but usually if you think you need more, you should go ahead and go down to a 1K and set a new bevel.

LESS STROKES ARE BETTER!!!

I have really enjoyed working with the Naniwa Super Stones lately and they offer some fun when using the pyramids. You can use either the 3K or the 5K in rotation with the 8K and they work very well with consistent and good results. I have been using the 3K for more the ebay type razors or those in a little rougher shape and using the 5K with nicer razors and full or extra hollow grinds..

This process also works very well with the Shapton Glass 4K and 8K stones.

When I first learned this process, I learned it on a Norton Combo 4K/8K stone and have worn out the 4K side on 8 stones since that time. When I first started, I was shaving right off the 8K side and had fantastic results. This was before I discovered the natural finishing stones and then the pasting or spray media. On the new Nortons, I recommend lapping off about 1/8 of an inch of the 4K side to get past the grainey feeling the newer stones have. Once the 4K side starts to feel smooth to the touch, you are there.

When we talk about lapping the stones, I really lap more to make sure I get the swarf off the stones and clean them up for the next use more than I am concerned with a millionth degree of flatness. Mostly flat is usually all you need to hone your razor so long as the edge and spine remain on the stone throughout your stroke. OK purists, don't get upset, as flat as you can get the stone is not a bad thing either. I have seen many a dished out or bowed hone from the old days and people were using them and shaving. I was using a pumice stone before Norton came out with the flattening stone and needles to say my stones were not perfectly flat, but I honed thousands of razor that were great shavers without difficulty.

The only real variation to the pyramid that I do is toward the end of the process on stainless razors or the newer harder feeling type steel razors.
The variation starts at the 3 stroke level.

3 Strokes on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K
1 Stroke on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K
1 Stroke on 4K 7 Strokes on 8K

I find that these razors do better with more polishing strokes.

The pretty much sums up the pyramid method that I use. With a little practice, this is a very consistent and repeatable process and once learned can really lay the foundation for experimenting with various other honing techniques.

I hope you guys have fun with this.

I'll write something up soon on the strokes I use with the various polishing or finishing stones and media I have used.

Thanks,

Lynn

Thanks Lynn. I've never failed to get a razor sharp if it could be sharpened since I learned it.

That was great Lynn, as you know I have been using the pyramids right along and I am a definite believer. Your latest post revealed some stuff I didn't know and I've already put the post in the Wiki here. Many thanks !

Thanks for including the note about the shaptons, as I'm sure it would have come up... I always see the pyramids being recommended for the 4k/8k duo, but have you ever done a pyramid for the 8k/16k jump? Or just the ~10 to 15 passes on the 16k?

BTW, I always appreciate when credit is given when due. You could have taken credit for the pyramid method and I'm sure no one would have ever questioned it, so here's to integrity.

Originally Posted by Ben325e

Thanks for including the note about the shaptons, as I'm sure it would have come up... I always see the pyramids being recommended for the 4k/8k duo, but have you ever done a pyramid for the 8k/16k jump? Or just the ~10 to 15 passes on the 16k?

BTW, I always appreciate when credit is given when due. You could have taken credit for the pyramid method and I'm sure no one would have ever questioned it, so here's to integrity.

Thanks Ben,

I have tried the higher level pyramids, but really found they were not necessary or that you really didn't get anything extra from them. The 10-15 strokes is usually enough. If you want to have some fun sometime though, try doing 20 very light circles in both directions followed by 10X strokes on your polishing hone.

Lynn

We should all send a thank you to Lynn for starting SRP. You can learn literally everything you need to know by reading the forum posts and the WIKI. This website is a veritable fountain of great information. We could also thank the mentors and the many members who freely share what they know about straight razors and the art of shaving....... Jerry

Lynn, this is really interesting. The pyramids in the Wiki are a bit different from this, so I'm rally excited to see that my need to add more strokes on the "bottom" of the pyramid isn't just me being a bad honer.

One question--have you found that some 1K/bevel setters have required more passes on your 3k/5k than others? I'm asking because I have a 1K diamond plate that I have used for bevel setting and it seems that it takes FOREVER to polish out the bevel on a 4k, so I've been using a 2K as a stepping stone. It helped my overall honing time/stroke number a bit...

Originally Posted by JimR

The pyramids in the Wiki are a bit different from this

I don't really think they are...

Originally Posted by BeBerlin

I don't really think they are...

OK, this is weird...The pyramids I've been using and the ones I printed out and have hanging over my worktable are the aggressive and conservative pyramids from the "Setting the Bevel and Honing with the Norton 4/8 Pyramid" which I can no longer find...I know I'm not imagining it, I've got the printout right here.

**EDIT**Ahhh..I see what you did there. Wiki history...it's a grand thing.

Hi,

Can the concept of pyramid apply for BBW and Coticule? Or does watering down the slurry on the BBW before moving to the Coticule + water pretty much take care of this?

I've been doing BBW + slurry, then water down the slurry, then move to coticule + water per Bart's wiki article.

-Chief