Thread: Xs and rolling Xs

Originally Posted by pcb01

So blades with some degree of warpage (and/or smiles) are not unusual -- which has been my experience. And using the rolling X along the side of the hone (the extreme right 1.5" or so-- which is what I've been doing) is the technique to deal with it.

I guess what confused me is that I was told (did not hear/see Him say it) that Lynn felt a 30-45 degree X pattern was the best way to deal with these, and that was not my experience.

Thanks to everyone who responded. BTW -- got my first coticule today (fr Jim at VB)! Another adventure begins....

Reading one particular quote by Lynn," I typically use a 45 degree angle when honing wedges, smiling blades or older razors that have really uneven spine wear."

Lynn mentions that he typically hones wedges and smiling blades with a 45 I don't think that means that he always does. If the blade has a smile or a warp to the point where the 45 approach isn't enough for the edge to make contact with the hone then obviously whoever is doing the honing will have to compensate for it by altering their stroke.

Actually, I prefer a 45 degree angle for warped, frowned, smiley or razors with a significant amount of hone wear. The 45 degree angle using both circles and X strokes is what has been the most successful for me.

Although the rolling X may work for some in any of it's variations, it is a stroke that new guys can really screw up and get poor results. I have used a rolling X with varying degrees of success and it is something that will work, but I am always concerned with lifting any part of the razor during a honing stroke.

Different strokes..........

Lynn

Originally Posted by Lynn

Actually, I prefer a 45 degree angle for warped, frowned, smiley or razors with a significant amount of hone wear. The 45 degree angle using both circles and X strokes is what has been the most successful for me.

Although the rolling X may work for some in any of it's variations, it is a stroke that new guys can really screw up and get poor results. I have used a rolling X with varying degrees of success and it is something that will work, but I am always concerned with lifting any part of the razor during a honing stroke.

Different strokes..........

Lynn

Forgive the newb question, but: What is angled 45 degrees, exactly? Do you mean you are lifting the spine off the hone to a 45-degree angle? (Akin to sharpening a knife?)

Or is the spine flat on the hone, but the toe + heel of the blade are angled 45 degrees from the back of the hone like this: / ?

Originally Posted by Basset

Or is the spine flat on the hone, but the toe + heel of the blade are angled 45 degrees from the back of the hone like this: / ?

It means a 45 degree angle relative to the hone with the blade flat on the hone. If it were not a smiler or a warped or worn spine it would be at 90 degrees. There is some individual variation on that among honers but that is what Lynn describes here in Lynn Abrams On Honing in the SRP Wiki.

I've tryed the 45 degree angle i carn't seem to get it to work as good as the rolling x lynn point about screwing up edge is very true because there is a nack to this but i find i get on with this method very well i always keep my spine flat to the hone with the roll and i do rolling x and i also do the stroke at 45 degree angle same thing but i start with heal down then finish toe slightly raized if needed. Practice with an old razor.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

It means a 45 degree angle relative to the hone with the blade flat on the hone. If it were not a smiler or a warped or worn spine it would be at 90 degrees. There is some individual variation on that among honers but that is what Lynn describes here in Lynn Abrams On Honing in the SRP Wiki.

Just to be clear: you mean with the spine flat on the hone as well?

Originally Posted by Basset

Just to be clear: you mean with the spine flat on the hone as well?

When honing a razor the spine is always on the hone. Even in the rolling x the portion of the blade that is being sharpened as the blade is pulled across the hone is touching the hone. Spine and that portion of the edge directly across from it are touching the hone.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

When honing a razor the spine is always on the hone. Even in the rolling x the portion of the blade that is being sharpened as the blade is pulled across the hone is touching the hone. Spine and that portion of the edge directly across from it are touching the hone.

So then the idea is to keep the entire blade flat on the hone, but angled 45 degrees. Like this:



And either do circles at this angle (I think I saw Ken Rup doing something like that in one of the vids recently posted) . .

and /or

complete a curved X stroke across the hone.

That sound right? Hope so. Because I've picked up quite a few antique finds with smiles, and that rolling stroke (lifting the spine as you move through the stroke) looks way too difficult.

Originally Posted by Basset

Just to be clear: you mean with the spine flat on the hone as well?

Jimmy just answered this also, but I am going to take it one step farther,,,

Every single video and picture of the rolling x is an over exaggerated example because in the true stroke you can't really see what is happening... the stroke should probably be re-named to the "rolling pressure stroke", because this is what you are really doing, you roll the pressure to the edge, from the heel to the toe... you are not actually picking the spine up (I hope)... This is also why some of us advocate the heel forward X stroke for smilers, it is actually an easier stroke to learn and master, if you think it is not working, try a slightly stronger angle, you can also roll the pressure on this stroke BTW...

Here is the only true statement on honing, "If you push the edge equally across the hone it will give you a sharp edge" the only question is how to do that from heel to toe equally....If you get in the early habit of watching that ripple of water as the edge moves down the hone, honing becomes so much easier.... If the ripple is not moving equally down the edge something is not working right...


Edit: I have been using a slight heel forward stroke on every single blade since I started sharpening razors....I have always thought it gives a better cutting edge... (No proof of this)

Yes, your photo is correct except what is being sharpened is flat .... spine and edge directly across from that portion of the spine that is on the hone.

i