Thread: Honing Technique

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I have found one good reason to use the x pattern I'd like to mention. I have found that honing on a stone that is not completely trued only works if you use an x pattern. I believe this is because you drag the blade down over the resultant hump and it gets honed, slowly but it works. I wonder if the X pattern was designed to prevent the effects of a slightly concave center of a hone from "poor" maintenance from having an effect on honing. ????

It seems you may be right, but why not just keep your hone true? It avoids a lot of problems.

Next, if industrial blades are striated parallel to the edge would it not make sense to use an exaggerated x pattern and see if that works? I'm willing to give it a shot if you guys agree with the thought....

Industial blades are done that way because it's just the natural way to use machinery. There's at least one post here that suggests it's better. I'm trying to experiment with it, but I haven't had a lot of time. I think it would be great if you tried it. Let us know what happens.

Finally I wonder if the x pattern somehow shears the edge flat and is less likely to build and overhoned irregular edge.

I don't know how you could test that easily.

I guess in aggregate I'm wondering if the x pattern is really based on the striation patterns and whether barbers and honermiesters of the day really worried about the striations at all. I have a sense that many of them didn't even look at the blade with a microscope.

In the 1939 barber's manual they're concerned abou it and, as I recall, they even have a microscope shot. I don't know how far that goes back.

Thats interesting Joe about the microscope in the Barbers manual, I hadn't seen that. No, no one intentionally uses a hone untrue unless it is really hard to true up. I'm thinking more that there is a connection with the Norton and the ability to hone straight across since its so easy to true. Since barbers in the past just did what worked the size of the stone and the trueness of it play a part in what worked. I think the X pattern is the way to go because of what it does to the edge, sheering it straight. No way to prove that as you say but anyone honing a razor often enough will eventually use a hone that is untrued. Even if its honing a single razor for a long session, unless you stop and true it every 5 minutes or so. Its always, atleast one stroke down the hone, untrued.

In the mean time I"m going to use an aggressive x pattern, one that moves the tip of the blade from the top of the hone to the bottom on each stroke, more than I typically use. So far today, good shaving results. Not the sharpest blade to date, but a great shaving edge...maybe the two aren't the same...

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Thats interesting Joe about the microscope in the Barbers manual, I hadn't seen that. No, no one intentionally uses a hone untrue unless it is really hard to true up. I'm thinking more that there is a connection with the Norton and the ability to hone straight across since its so easy to true. Since barbers in the past just did what worked the size of the stone and the trueness of it play a part in what worked. I think the X pattern is the way to go because of what it does to the edge, sheering it straight. No way to prove that as you say but anyone honing a razor often enough will eventually use a hone that is untrued. Even if its honing a single razor for a long session, unless you stop and true it every 5 minutes or so. Its always, atleast one stroke down the hone, untrued.

I agreed that there is validity to both of your observations. Some types of stones rarely need truing.

The honing section of the 1961 babers manual that's availble in the document section here is the same as th 1939 manual. The fourth page contains the microscope photos. It also says that the x-pattern should be used "to produce teeth with a cutting edge." It shows a sawtooth pattern where each tooth has a slanted edge and a steep edge. The steep edge is on the tip side of the tooth. If you shave with a tip leading tilt, that steep edge engages the whiskers.

I think that's a pretty good explanation of why the x-pattern is preferred. If you honed straight across the stone, you would get teeth that have an equal slant on both sides. It would still cut, but not as well as a steep edge of a tooth.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

The honing section of the 1961 babers manual that's availble in the document section here is the same as th 1939 manual. The fourth page contains the microscope photos.

That is far from microscope photo. It is hand drawing of microscope observation.
LaPeret started loking razors under microscope couple around 1770.

Nenad

Dang ----

I hadn't seen that version of the Barbers manual before or it had been so long I had forgotten. A lot of emphasis on the importance of the X pattern, scratch patterns etc. Thanx for bringing that to my attention. I am going to focus on my x pattern honing much more and with more discipline than before. I never saw in writing how important the consistency of the scratch pattern was and its importance in relation to each side of the blade.

btw...anyone notice how many views this threas has? wow!

The Wonderedge is a pretty valuable razor. Be conservative in your honing on this razor.

1. Back honing for a few strokes would not hurt this razor. It would eliminate the possibility of a wire edge. 3 back strokes on the 5K followed by 5 normal strokes should do it. Be sure and test the edge before and after.

2. Stay on the 5K stone,not the 2k, use a little more pressure and use a conservative pyramid set. Check your edge frequently to notice the rate of change that occurs.
after the first conservative set, use a lighter pressure on the next set if it is necessary.

Follow Lynns advice and be very conservative with this razor. Also be aware that it is impossible for us to see or feel the edge of your razor. I know that being careful is a bit frustrating but it will eventually become shaving sharp.


Hope this helps,

Originally Posted by Korndog

I bought a nice DD Wonderedge and put it to the stones this week. I used an agressive pyramid (15/5 down) on the Shapton 5k and Kitayama 8k with little to no pressure with mediocre shave results, but it did shave. I then decided to go to the 8k/15k standard pyramid. I was able to complete a shave with it at this point but it was not super close or comfy.

Questions?

1. Would you try backhoning before going at the stones again?

2. Would you drop down to a corse grit like 2k and start over again?

3. Would you repeat the original process?

TIA
Larry

Originally Posted by randydance062449

Because an angled striation (scratch pattern) shaves better.

I now have some information that supports Randy's position.

The honing section of the standard textbook of barbering ( copy available on this site), at the fourth page contains microscope "photos." It also says that the x-pattern should be used "to produce teeth with a cutting edge." It shows a sawtooth pattern where each tooth has a slanted edge and a steep edge (like a saw blade). The steep edge is on the tip side of the tooth. If you shave with a tip leading tilt (or a slight sliding movent toward the tip) as the book teaches, that steep edge engages the whiskers, just like a saw.

If you hone straight across you get a tooth that has the same slant on both sides. It'll cut, but not as well as the steep edge. So, honing so as produce slanted scratch lines should produce an edge that cuts better.