Thread: Why does razor pulls and scratches my face despite HHT passed ?

I encountered a problem. I've been shaving with my straight for nearly a year now. During this time i had to hone the razor a few times. Tha razor usually maintains good sharpness for about 2 months. I always use HHT to check if the razor is sharp enough. However, the razor passes HHT only if it's stropped after honing. So my honing looks like this:

1. 5..10 strokes on the 8k
2. 20 strokes on the strop
3. HHT test
4. If HHT is passed then I stop honing. If not, i get back to 8k and do 2..4 more strokes and 20 on the strop and do HHT again.

I always used this procedure with good results. Unfortunately, last time i honed the razor in the same way (with the HHT passed very well) but the shave was not comfortable and the razor pulled my whiskers somewhat also i felt pain on the face skin.
I thought i had overhoned the razor so I did a few strokes in stropping direction on 8k and started to hone again until it passed HHT. Unfortunately i had uncomfortable shave again. I felt some pulling, sratching and pain after the shave on the face as if it were "washed" with abrasive paper. Is it possible the razor is still overhoned ?

Overhoned razor slides over the skin without cutting.

Couple of things could be the problem:

1st & foremost: HHT is only an indicator, shavetest is the proof of the pudding.
2nd: does the razor pass the HHT along its entire cutting edge?
3rd: is your skinprep up to scratch?
4th: some hones, particularly diamond hones leave a harsh edge. You may want to use a chromium oxide pasted strop after honing and before stropping on leather to soften the cutting edge.

You seem to be a careful honer, that doesn't do more laps than needed, which is a good thing. But from what you describe, somehow you ended up with a very rough edge, possibly caused by a number of microchips missing from the very edge. I am not a specialist when it comes to overhoning, so it's hard to tell. It could be overhoning, but I think so far you only performed a number of touch-ups on that razor. For some people that method works time and time again. But other people's (hard) whiskers tend to cause a microchip in the edge every so often. These chips build up to the point where the razor requires full honing. A touch up regains the original sharpness, but it does not remove the roughness coming from the microchips.
Either that, or overhoning. Let's leave it there. What I'd recommend is the same anyway.
I think you should perform a TNT as this point (Thumb Nail Test). The TNT may remove some of the keenness of the very edge, but that very edge is no good at this point anyway.
I'm not sure how familiar you are with the TNT, so here's a brief explanation:

Wet your thumbnail. Drag the razor, edge down and no more pressure than its own weight, slowly over your nail, as if you were going to cut it. The edge should sink a small bit into the nail, causing a clear sensation of draw, often referred to as "a sticky feeling". But it should feel very smooth. If the edge has any rough spots (caused by either of the aforementioned problems), the TNT will easily reveal that.

The remedy is to go to a lower grit hone. I assume you're using a Norton 4K/8K. Do about 10 reverse strokes on the 4K, and then 10 normal X-strokes. Check with the TNT again. If still rough, repeat. Test-repeat-test-repeat, etc... till the TNT reveals a completely smooth and sharp edge. It should be "very sticky", but no roughness whatsoever.

At that point it's time to polish on the 8K or start doing conservative pyramids between the 4K and the 8K. Your choice.
Don't perform the TNT anymore at this point, since the test itself could be slightly detrimental to the edge.

Please keep us posted,

Bart.

There seems to be a problem with your edge, an 8k hone can not solve.

8.000 is very, very fine. It´s finishing grade prior to pasting
(you can however use it without, but pasting will improve the shaving quality overall)

If wear or damage has appeared on the edge, an 8k will not be enough to repair the edge.

i would try a little coarser stone, maybe a 4.000 or even an 1.000,
with a 4.000 in between to 8.000.
Set the bevel new, refine the edge, finish and paste.
This should solve every problem thereis.
But this would mean buying new hones. You could however send the razor to a honemeister

There is no way you will have overhoned the edge with 10 strokes per honing session,
on an 8k. It would take more, I believe. Way more. From time to time I stay for a 100 strokes on an 8k without overhoning it.

It would be hard to find out what caused the problem in the first place.
Maybe there is a stropping issue, and you got a rolled edge.
I had this once; I honed a razor to a very nice edge with silent slicing HHT
and stropped it. I was in a little hurry and unfocused.
After stropping I felt a difference in HHT,
it wasn´t as nicely as before, but still it was HHT.

I did a test shave, and the razor pulled a little and damn,
my skin burnt.
This is why HHT has to be used with caution

btw: IDK but keeping a razor shave ready one year with only an 8k is a very nice accomplishment.
It could be that it´s just time for your razor to be freshly honed!
As I already said, an 8k hone cannot undo the wear the edge experiences.
So from time to time it takes mor than just a finisher or pastes
to reset things at the edge

Your hone doesn't need lapped does it? Just brain storming.

I have never been able to shave off an 8K. I go to a 16K then pastes.


R

You might want to invest in some jewelers loupes. They are the one eye piece magnifiers you see people use in the movies to ogle a diamond. 10x is fine, 30x would be better. This way you can see how your edge is responding to your honing.

I was thinking the same as Bart, microchipping is common in older blades and cannot be seen with the naked eye usually, as dnjrboy said a good jwelers loupe or a little radioshack microscope will tell the truth about the blade. If microchipping is the problem the best solution is to reset the bevel and continue to do so until all of the bad metal is gone and then progress from there.

Kekon,
dzień dobry! There are two things here that seem to point out your issue. Kees talked about the various test we perform to move on to the next stage of honing. Those include the TNT, TPT and HHT. He is absolutly correct in saying these are only tests. In fact I really think that two of them, the TNT and the TPT, are only a tactile way of us being able to move on to the next stage. The HHT is, of course, a visual method. These "tests", I believe as Kees does, that these should actually be called "indicators".

If you stop and think about it the TNT and the TPT are the only two of the three that you actually come in full contact with the blade testing it completely from one end to the other. The HHT is a random indicator of different points along the blade. When I use the HHT I only check 4 to 5 points along the blade, and this is less than 1% of the total blade. It use to trick me all the time. I still do the HHT to make sure I haven't screwed the edge up after stropping, but a long time ago I changed to checking the edge with my little Microscope before moving to the pasts and strop. The final test, the shaving test, IS the only test that really tells the story.

This is where nun2sharp points out that microchipping might be the culpret. I Also agree with him on this point. Because of the HHT not really being to usefull, other than making you smile because you know that those small points are sharp, I have resorted to checking the blade with my little 60x microscope prior to going to the pasts and strop. After the strop I do both the microscope and then the HHT. Because I changed to this method long ago, I invariably find a microchip somewhere along the length of the blade at the end of my 16k stone. Interestingly enough these are almost always either around 1/4" in from the toe or 1/8" in from the heal. Don't know why, just is.
Find some way to look at that edge and let us know it you do have microchipping.

Just my .02


Ray

You do need a cheap jewlers loop to look at the edge i have 30k one if theres any chips you will see them straight away. but if 8k is'ny getting you there i'd just rehone you can set bevel nicley on 4k then polish again on 8k i use the norton 4k/8k it will work fine. I've had the similar problem passed hht but shaved with out pulling but felt gritty i just did a pyramid and test shaved untill the shave was smooth again maybe it as over done slightly i don't no but if in dout just rehone.over honed does glide over stubble not sharpenough will shave but pull and hurt so i'd say its not sharp enough.