Shaving straight off the Naniwa 12k versus Shapton 16k

[cotdt]

Which shaves more smoothly straight off the hone, the Naniwa 12k or Shapton 16k? In previous comparisons, people finish on CrOx which nullifies the differences between these two hones. How do these two super hones compare as the final finisher?

[rayman]

I have shaved after finishing off both these hones and I find there is no difference. It seems to me that the 12k nani finish is equal to the 16k shapton. I am not sure how you think the Crox nullifies the finish. .5 Crox is = 30k grit. It has a smoothining effect on the edge that you can't seem to get from a hone. IMHO.

Ray

[StraightRazorDave]

I have shaved after finishing off both these hones and I find there is no difference. It seems to me that the 12k nani finish is equal to the 16k shapton. I am not sure how you think the Crox nullifies the finish. .5 Crox is = 30k grit. It has a smoothining effect on the edge that you can't seem to get from a hone. IMHO.

Ray

I think he means that when you use chromium oxide to finish it will produce the same results regardless if you used the Naniwa 12k or Shapton 16k, so it really doesn't matter which you used first since you still finish with chromium oxide. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the claim (since I really don't know), just trying to clarify what I think he means by the chromium oxide "nullifying" effect.

[cotdt]

I have shaved after finishing off both these hones and I find there is no difference. It seems to me that the 12k nani finish is equal to the 16k shapton. I am not sure how you think the Crox nullifies the finish. .5 Crox is = 30k grit. It has a smoothining effect on the edge that you can't seem to get from a hone. IMHO.

Ray

Thanks for the useful response. I have the Naniwa 12k and I'm just wondering if the grass is greener on the other side, that's all.

CrOx and diamond paste is simply too sharp and aggressive on the better razors, makes the razor catch onto bumps on the skin. It's good for some razors but just too much for the razors with extremely thin edges and hard steel (the ones that I use).

I prefer straight off the hone, strop on leather, and shave.

[Memorael]

there has been suspicion amongst some friends that anything above a 10k in japanese hones is pretty much the same. The shapton 16k and 30k being the exception because they mark in micron size the grit but think about the finish a naniwa leaves. That finish is comparable to the 16k, IMHO

[rayman]

I think he means that when you use chromium oxide to finish it will produce the same results regardless if you used the Naniwa 12k or Shapton 16k, so it really doesn't matter which you used first since you still finish with chromium oxide. I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the claim (since I really don't know), just trying to clarify what I think he means by the chromium oxide "nullifying" effect.

Sorry about that Dave. I really bungled this one up. What I should have said was that I do have both the Nani 12k and the 16k Shapton and have tried shaving off of each one by just going straight to the strop and then to the shave from the stone. I personally was not able to tell any difference between the two. Of course that is just my opinion.

I don't think you will find any difference between the two either. The only thing I can say is that the Shapton, supposidly, works best when used with other shaptons as a system. That is what I have read on this forum and can't be positive of it though. I am using my 16k shapton with a set of Nani's and haven't seen any issues.

I hope this clears this up.

Ray

[Visibility]

I personally have found that with the shapton 16 or 30k, if perfectly flat, just go right to the strop and it's good.

[JimmyHAD]

I prefer straight off the hone, strop on leather, and shave.

I used to do just that all of the time. IOW, I would never shave off of a hone without stropping first. I still do that . For the longest time the only way I would use paste or chrom ox was if the first pass wasn't up to snuff.

I would hit the chrom ox or the diamond before the second pass. Other than that I didn't use the stuff. Now I'm widening out a little bit and experimenting with diamond paste on balsa, barber hones.... just trying some well known techniques that are new to me. Keeps life interesting.

[gssixgun]

Drop the strop altogether, seriously want to learn what your edges are really like, shave off the stone alone... OOOOooooo that even rhymes....

Trying it that way I think the Naniwa 12k is a bit smoother, the Shapton system IMHO will get the edge a bit sharper....

[cotdt]

I would hit the chrom ox or the diamond before the second pass. Other than that I didn't use the stuff. Now I'm widening out a little bit and experimenting with diamond paste on balsa, barber hones.... just trying some well known techniques that are new to me. Keeps life interesting.

0.1 micron diamond paste on balsa gives the sharpest razor, but don't you get weepers when you shave with such a razor? I find that I still need to use a little pressure while shaving for the closest possible shave, and the skin feels slightly raw afterwards.

I back off the diamonds and get perfect shaves every time. Then again I'm using a stainless with a really thin grind and an acute edge, a lot depends on the razor.