Thread: King Waterstones.

Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

Kings are soft as well and will make a slurry just from use.

+1 The Kings I have always seem to make their own slurry after only 3 or 4 laps. I just soak them for 15 minutes and sharpen with them.

As for dishing, I would say that mine usually don't need to be lapped until I have hones maybe half a dozen razors.

I like the King hones for their feedback, speed, and the fact that they make a slurry by themselves as you sharpen, but I HATE the fact that it takes them 3 days in the sun or a week in the house to dry enough for storage.

just my 2 cents:

I have king 325, 1k, and 6k. They aren't the best out there, but I've been very successful with them so far. I use them in the kitchen sink under running water always, especially the 1k, it's a thirsty bugger. Stopping to check the edge with a loupe and OH! it's dry again. A very small stream works well, cold water turn on just barely above dripping. Neither stone needs to be soaked if used this way. I've never used a slurry on either stone, but the nagura might be useful for gently removing metal swarf every 100 to 300 laps. They work so much better when free and clear. Use only one face of the 1k, top or bottom, but use both sides of both stones, often. Helps wear more evenly. Also, round the corners and edges of both stones, but in my experience this was more of an issue with the 6k for some reason. Early on the edge was what was killing my honing, as soon as I rounded it off with some judicious scrubbing on the sandpaper, I was much more successful. Keep that elbow up, the less pressure on the 6k the better. The 1k is more forgiving while the 6k demands patience and respect to get what you want out of it. No idea why it's such a bossy stone.

I mean, the Naniwas are pretty sweet looking, but I want to wear this 1k down as far as I can as a learning stone (stepping stone?) before investing in stones that are better. And yes, my 6k smells funny too and my 1k never dries out!

I have a King home stone 1K and 4K (cheap version,s with the stands). I've not had much luck with the 1K--it seems way too soft and slow; I've never gotten a satisfactory bevel off of it. like I can with a 1K diamond plate. The 4K seems ok, though. Not the smoothest feedback, but when used with the Naniwa super 2K and 8K, they seem to give decent results. At least until I get the Naniwa 5K.

And mine smell fine, Tom.

I've solely used Kings on razors the last couple of years & apart from their lack of speed in bevel setting can't complain about their efficacy. Anyho this is my 2c.

I think your bevel is not set if after 6k it no longer feels sharp or is not cutting hair.
You may be polishing an incomplete bevel which initially snags & breaks hair due to its 'toothiness' but is not truly cutting.
The Kings are slow but like the coticule can be sped up. I use a King 800 as my slurry stone on my 1200 but a diamond plate would work fine. This will speed things up & keep your hone clean & cutting well.
After bevel setting the Kings are no longer 'slow'. I always used the supplied Nagura on 4 k up to 8k & as a rule 20 or so passes is all that's needed after the 1200. If you're stepping up to 6k you may need more than 20 strokes but there should be no loss in keeness if the bevel is properly set... As Lynn said, it is also possible to overhone & breakdown the edge if you do too much. You need to find the happy medium.
The stones are soft & must be lapped but usually not till after 7 or 10 razors. IME...

So I got home late last night and pulled out the hones. let them soak as i picked out a razor.

Picked up a keenedge with blued finish and MOP covered tang. Pretty little 4/8 in pretty good condition. Checked the edge out under the radioshack microscope, It wasn't sharp but didn't seem to have any damage to it. So now i have my razor and my stones are no longer thirsty.

Hit the 1k, 5 laps at a time until it popped arm hair (sorry i didn't count total laps) Nice even edge from toe to heal. consistent sharpness. Moved to the 6k with only water, that seemed to be a general suggestion from this thread. 10 laps on that and then i tested the edge. Good TPT, had a smooth draw. Tested on arm hair, still cuttin good, but smoother so yay! that seemed to fix that little problem i was having.

After that i went straight to the coticule with just water. I'm not sure if that's the correct progression step, but i didn't want to use slurry as some people use that to set bevels, and since this was mainly to test my 6k stone i didn't want to alter those results. so 25 laps on the coticule, gave me a smooth cutting action and a pretty good edge.

Now I have a nice razor with a decent edge. Compared to some of my other razors though it doesn't seem as sharp. What I'm talking about here is other razors I've used .25 diamond paste after honing a razor strictly on the coticule, and those razors can cut arm hair 1/4 inch above my skin. Just trims it right off with no pressure at all. However these razors leave my skin irritated after a shave as I hear is somewhat of a dislike of pastes.

So is there any way to get an edge that keen, yet keep the coti comfort?

More laps on the coti? Use a light slurry somewhere in the mix? Any suggestions?

Thanks for your responses, this community is amazing.

P.S. King 6k does smell weird. I didn't notice until I was at a friends and while I was sharpening his hunter he asked me what the stink was. He really didn't like it. How would you describe the scent?

Originally Posted by Pendulum

P.S. King 6k does smell weird. I didn't notice until I was at a friends and while I was sharpening his hunter he asked me what the stink was. He really didn't like it. How would you describe the scent?

I just call it "weird".... I haven't smelled it in a while I'll take a good whiff if I remember later and see. The smell is a smell that once you smell it, it's hard to forget. Just by my memory, there's a little bit of a burnt hair kind of smell, but more "complicated". We might need a wine connoisseur to help us out!

I would say the smell is kinda like rubber and funk... something like that rubber from like a non vulcanized tire... o well I tried. A secret about the king stones is they contain high quality natural powder from natural stones in the 6k and 8k versions so they are not by any means cheap stones maybe the most massively produced but non the less very high quality IMHO.

is the advanage of DMT's as slurry stones that they dont leave any of "their" particles behind? is the DMT extra-fine a suitable slurry stone for finishing hones (e.g 8k-12K, barber hones, etc)? is the extra-fine suitable for lower grits, e.g. 1k, or do you need a coarser one for that? I have a japanese nagura stone but I dont know the grit exactly and the above discussion makes me leery. thanks.

Watch out for the orange/red King stones, they stain Bakelite scales (mine does). Other than that, they are okay but due to their softness, they need frequent lapping.

Some people swear by the nagura and others swear at it. The reasoning as I was taught by Murray Carter to why you shouldn't use a nagura stone is straightforward. When you create particles from the nagura it's like grinding a knife into a sand box. It will round out the edge.

I use Murray's methods without the nagura and they are very consistent. I think you have the perfect stones for doing the job. Murray doesn't go higher than a 6,000 grit King stone. You have the three basic stones you need. One for fixing nicks-and-chips and for re-establishing the primary bevel. The other takes out the sand scratches from the 220-grit stone and puts a nice burr on your edge which you can easily take off by gently dragging the blade accross a piece of soft wood by the weight of the blade alone (a soft paint stir sticks works great for me).

After you're established the tip and are satisfied with the angle of the primary edge, you can strop backwards on the stone by stropping backwards from the tip down to the heel of the implement.

Using three stones makes establishing your primary angle much easier because you can actually learn to feel the bevel as you strop backwards as previously described.

Then stropping in the same manner using the 6,000-grit stone works wonders. For straight razor guys, I guess you can go right to the leather strop from here. But for Murray, and I've done this trick many, many times, you can use newspaper print laid on a 3/4 inch glass table or a granite block that has been machined to 1/10,000 of an inch tolerance. It really works great for keeping the edge pointed and not rounded off. But that's how I was taught and it is working fine. So far I have shaved my face with a fishing fillet knife, a cheap Buck 110 and a finer Kuro-uchi kitchen knife which has a high-carbon center forge-welded by two softer pieces of steel.

I don't claim to be an expert, far from it. But the newspaper trick will blow you away. Try it and see what you think.

The Piano Tuner Guy