Thread: el cheapo method

Here's another experiment I just tried: making abrasive paste from vaseline & powdered baking cocoa. I got the inspiration from a survival article about how to start a fire w/a can of soda & a chocolate bar (use the chocolate as a polishing rouge to turn the bottom of the can into a parabolic mirror). Feedback from people who have tried this says that the cocoa is much less abrasive than polishing compound so it's a lot more work.

After my own experimentation, it's hard to say whether the cocoa paste is finer than the auto compound. It certainly smells better :-) The razor was of course sharper after polishing w/the cocoa paste (sharp enough to accidentally nick my belt strop), but I can't tell if it's because the cocoa is a finer abrasive, or simply because of the additional polishing. I suspect the size of the ground cocoa particles is not as tightly controlled as the grit in the auto compound & wouldn't be surprised if there's a big variance from can to can.

Anyway, these primitive methods seem to do the job, & may not be any more primitive than the methods that were in use 100 years ago (how tightly was the oxide abrasive controlled back then? Could they even measure a micron in 1905?). At the moment I can't say how well these methods compare to modern methods like waterstones, but it's food for thought, & a viable alternative for the chronically short of cash.

Welcome to the site. You are one radical dude. Denim and polishing compound, vaseline and cocoa powder. Can't wait to hear what kind of shaving creams you invent.

X

Welcome to the site. You are one radical dude. Denim and polishing compound, vaseline and cocoa powder. Can't wait to hear what kind of shaving creams you invent.

I'm wondering what he eats for dinner!

Randy

Just call me MacGyver

[QUOTE=booga]
Another persistent myth about sharpening is the myth of lubrication. Modern stones do not need water or oil. In fact it is counterproductive because pushing the knife through an oil/metal particle slurry is like trying to sharpen something by pushing it through a pile of sand. You will get better results from a dry stone, just slap it against your palm periodically to shake the particles loose (Arkansas stones can be washed w/dish soap & water to remove the black stuff).

The advice your stating here highly contested!
Juranovitch(sp?) is NOT! universially regarded as the be all end all and none of his writings include anything regarding straight razors that I have seen.

As you hone on a Norton,spyderco ceramic or classic barber hone with a straight razor you will see how quickly the hone becomes clogged with metal filings especially if the hone is used dry. If the hone is clogging up then the rate of change in the edge is decreased and you have to take the time to clean the hone afterward. Frankly, the spyderco ceramic hone is not fun to clean.
If you use a japanese waterstone or the Norton or a chinese waterstone they all say to use water on them to prevent the stone from clogging with filings. Most of the classic barber hones also say to use either water or lather.

As to the sand effect of oil or water, BALONEY!! The liquid simply acts as a very thin film that minimally reduces the contact with the bonded abrasives but also assists in keeping the hone clean.

A nagura stone is used on the japanese waterstones and frankly works on the Norton also. It should be pointed out that Nagura stones come in different grit sizes also. Most are only suitable for grits less than 8000(JIS standard) The nagura combined with water creates an abrasive slurry, MUCH LIKE SAND!, that INCREASES the rate of abrasion on the stone. This same phenomina is also observed when a Belgian waterstone is used. Water is sprinkled on the surface and the act of honing shatters the imbedded garnets and thus creates an abrasive slurry, much like sand, which yields one of the best rzors edges available from a natural stone.

Sorry to go off on you like this but you did put out out some bad info and I had to correct it, this is not aimed at you but rather to help the other new guys from developing some misconceptions and making some very frustating mistakes.

BTW, the coco sounds interesting, I will have to give it a try on one of my fixer-uppers.

Let me amend that, I shouldn't have said "modern stones." What I meant to say is silicon carbide stones and soft Arkansas stones don't need lubrication. Japanese waterstones DO need water because the slurry is what does the cutting. I'm going to edit my other post so I don't inadvertently steer people in the wrong direction. You're right. I have never owned a waterstone so like a dope I conveniently forgot about them.

Let me also clarify that this particular advice is for knives. I am not experienced at sharpening razors. (There aren't any 8000-grit silicon carbide stones anyway).

I have gotten good results by dry-honing with the aforementioned two types of stones, with ceramic rods, and with wet/dry sandpaper. But I should make it clear that I've never used any other kind of stone & can't speak intelligently about them. And you're right about another thing, John Juranitch's research is hotly contested.

Sorry for my sloppiness, I'll be more precise in the future.

A note about cocoa: vaseline seems a little sticky for my liking. I bet Crisco would work better but I haven't tried it yet.

Edited to add the following footnote for completeness:

"In North America we usually use oil on sharpening stones; in the rest of the world they use water. Tests by John Juranitch show that because oil carries the dross against the edge, better results are obtained with a dry stone. However, natural stones tend to clog without oil. I prefer ceramic and diamond stones used dry, and my second choice is Japanese waterstones."

-- From Knife Sharpening Tips by Steve Bottorff
http://www.ebladestore.com/sharpening_tips.shtml#using

Originally Posted by booga

A note about cocoa: vaseline seems a little sticky for my liking. I bet Crisco would work better but I haven't tried it yet.

And when you're all done ... you can eat it (if you don't mind a little extra "fibre" in your diet).

X

El Cheapo update: I am now convinced that the cocoa powder abrasive is finer than the automotive polishing compound, based on the subjective feel of the razor after polishing, FWIW. This coincides with the feedback from the soda-can polishers, who said that using chocolate as an abrasive took 4 times longer than using compound. My razor may not compare favorably against one of Lynn's hone jobs, but it is sharp enough to shave me without pulling or tearing, and without creating razor burns. So acquisition of a waterstone is not a life-and-death issue at the moment, but I'll keep an eye out for one if the price is right.

I also bought a boar bristle brush & some mug soap. I must say I do like the way the brush feels on my face...kind of like a mini massage. Without these little luxuries, by God, what's life worth?

I have a couple of hobbies that have products that might work for honing, at least along the same lines as cocoa powder. I keep fish and my wife keeps Chinchillas. What these have in common is a fine powder for cleaning. Chinchillas bathe in dust to remove oils from their fur. I just checked this dust and it is exceedingly fine. Here's a link to a picture of the product. Any large pet store should carry this in their small animal section. The other product, which may not be as easy to come by, is diatomaceous eath used in a diatom filter. It is used to remove particulates down to the 3 to 5 micron level. Apparently it can also kill bugs quite effectively by scratching their exoskeletons, thus causing the insect to die of dehydration. Anyway, here's a link to some information about that. Chances are you can find this at any tack and feed shop or a store specializing in fish. Just points to ponder.

On another forum (don't recall where) I read about someone using a newspaper folded over his honing stone as a final polishing step with good results.

Are there any experiences here with this technique ?

-Axel-