Thread: got microscope - Where do I start?

Originally Posted by Korndog

Ok, I'll try the 15k some more. Thanks for the idea about the felt tip. I was thinking about stones and decided to take a picture of a Murray Carter knife sharpening job, which are some of the best. He only uses 1k stones I believe and gets the most amazing knife edges anywhere. Here is a picture of it and it looks very smooth across the edge even with the coarser stone. I'm not sure if this means anything, but it makes me think I can go down to the 1k stone to try and grind these nicks out if I have to.

When I look at that picture, it seems there's something more at work there. Notice how the very edge is depressed. I saw something similar in the Feather super str8 blade. This just looks too smooth for a 1K stone. With a 1k stone the scratch lines are much coarser, and that determines the depth of the depressions in the edge.

What you could try is going back to the 5K and doing 1 or 2 rond trips with light pressure just to see what effect it has on the edge.

A 1k is so aggressive that it could reform the entire edge quickly, not just the tip. That's counterproductive.

I really like this thread! Thanks for taking the time and doing all this work!

Since you have followed the conservative, practical suggestions of the guys here and it still does not shave well may I suggest something?

All of the used razors that I have purchased have shown the effects of time on the bevel. Water and oxygen play heck with the bevel. It is usually weakened from the oxidation. Usually I have to use a 1000 stone to remove the old, weakened steel and get to steel that has not been affected by the oxidation and establish a new edge. If I don't then the edge simply goes to hell at some stage in the honing process. Either the bevel develops small chips at the finer grits levels or it simply will not develop an edge because the edge is soft from the oxidation and crumbles making it somewhat "rounded" and rough.

My point? Well, you have done all the proper steps. Now its my guess, and only a guess, that you need to wash you blade with soap and water then strop it on a terry cloth towel. This will remove all the "stuff" from the blade.
Then take a pic and perform the thumbnail test. Next, go back to the 1000 grit stone for 25 laps. Clean the razor as above and take anothe pic and perform the tests. Hopefully, you will see a distinct change in the bevel and feel it in your tests. If you are sure that you now have "new" steel to create a bevel on then move up the grit ladder as normal.

Just my two cents,

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

When I look at that picture, it seems there's something more at work there. Notice how the very edge is depressed. I saw something similar in the Feather super str8 blade. This just looks too smooth for a 1K stone. With a 1k stone the scratch lines are much coarser, and that determines the depth of the depressions in the edge.
What you could try is going back to the 5K and doing 1 or 2 rond trips with light pressure just to see what effect it has on the edge.
A 1k is so aggressive that it could reform the entire edge quickly, not just the tip. That's counterproductive.

Well Joe. I gotta tell you it's too late. I couldn't resist the temptation to take it to the Shapton 1k, which is about 11.5 micron. I'm not sure how that compares to Norton grit, but it is the rough equivelant of a M Arkansas stone and 500 grit sandpaper. I decided to work it on the stone and monitor the progress. I found that I started getting a smoother edge as I worked it (I mean I worked it; burr and all), so I continued until I got no more improvement. I then worked it on the 2k stone and have a picture of that edge herein. You will notice that it is considerably smoother than in all prior attempts. I will now go to the finer stones and see what happens. I am amazed at how smooth it is finally getting.

I wonder if you are reffering to the primary and secondary bevels on the Carter blade. Not sure.

Originally Posted by randydance062449

I really like this thread! Thanks for taking the time and doing all this work!
Usually I have to use a 1000 stone to remove the old, weakened steel and get to steel that has not been affected by the oxidation and establish a new edge. If I don't then the edge simply goes to hell at some stage in the honing process. Either the bevel develops small chips at the finer grits levels or it simply will not develop an edge because the edge is soft from the oxidation and crumbles making it somewhat "rounded" and rough.
Just my two cents,

Yes! Yes! I am sure that is what was happening to me. It had to be! I posted my last post before I read this, but I came to this conclusion exactly. I am glad to hear this from someone else. I believe I had some bad steel at the very edge that kept getting chipped as I worked it. What do you think of the latest pic?

Thanks!

Hello my patient friends
I am finished for the night. I have worked this blade for most of the afternoon and I believe I have gained some ground on the beast. It looks pretty good under the scope now, showing a much smoother edge than prior attempts. Whether or not this tranlates into a smooth shave will have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks for following along; I have really enjoyed this learning experience.

The following shots are after 5k, 8/15k, and pasted leather.

Very nice job of sticking with it Korndog! It's pretty cool to see how technology confirms the tried and true honing methods. I look forward to your update on how this beast shaves.

Originally Posted by Korndog

Hello my patient friends
I am finished for the night. I have worked this blade for most of the afternoon and I believe I have gained some ground on the beast. It looks pretty good under the scope now, showing a much smoother edge than prior attempts. Whether or not this tranlates into a smooth shave will have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks for following along; I have really enjoyed this learning experience.

The following shots are after 5k, 8/15k, and pasted leather.

It looks like you've got it this time. Yes, it does seem like you had a deteriorated edge. I wonder if there's any way to tell ahead of time. I guess that crumbling edge is a tipoff. It should never come out that rough after the strop.

This documentation presents a very important lesson. Great work! I'm confident you'll have a good edge now. If you don't it'll only be because the fin is not continuous, which you can fix.

Originally Posted by Korndog

I wonder if you are reffering to the primary and secondary bevels on the Carter blade. Not sure.

I don't think that's what it is. When you have primary and secondary bevels, the angle gets less steep towards the front of the edge. Here, the very front is the steepest and it looks like there's a depression formed behind it..

Yes! I finally got a decent shave from this razor. It wasn't as good as I had hoped, but it was perfectly acceptable. I'm not sure why it wasn't perfect, but I think I can get it there now without reinventing the wheel.

Larry

Originally Posted by Korndog

Yes! I finally got a decent shave from this razor. It wasn't as good as I had hoped, but it was perfectly acceptable. I'm not sure why it wasn't perfect, but I think I can get it there now without reinventing the wheel.

Larry

I thought this would work. Probably the only thing you need is to even out the fin so that it's continuous.