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  1. 11-28-2009, 05:39 PM #1
    Bart
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregJDS View Post
    +1 on flipping the razor with the edge facing the hone, dong it might be more dangerous but it aslso feels more natural.
    I think its best to learn to do things the dangerous way if you can do it without casuing damage.
    Who dares wins about a second each time. Although if you keep damaging the blade and having to reset the bevel then you probably are not saving much time.
    Please advice me how I can win that extra second.
    YouTube - stroke.WMV


    Just all meant in good fun/ too each his own.
    Last edited by Bart; 11-28-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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  • 11-28-2009, 06:53 PM #2
    GregJDS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    Please advice me how I can win that extra second.
    YouTube - stroke.WMV


    Just all meant in good fun/ too each his own.
    Lol i think in your case you would be only winning a quarter second or less. Although you probably do four times as many razors in the same time I do one.

    Let the ranting begin...


    I like the tang to rest one side centred on my thumb and the other side locked in the hollow of the first joint on my index finger. (for control)
    And I like this to be the same grip going up the hone and down the hone.
    You seem to change grip so that the razor tang is resting on the pad between the two index finger joints. This I think would give me a lack of control I wouldnt like, and im guessing this would only work for the razors that ly perfectly on the hone.


    TRy putting the razor tang centred on the thumb on one side and in the index fingers first join rest on the other side.
    Then try turning the razor towards you constantly by pressing down with your thumb.
    Then try turning it away from you by constantly pressing up with your thumb.
    You should find yourself using the fully opened razor and scales to turn it with your other fingers along the scales.


    Im pretty sure its easier to add lifting up to the thumb towards you motion and keep that extra control you get from having the tang resting in the index joint and not have to sacrifice control by allowing it to lazily rest itself on the pilllow like padding between the index joints.



    My main case is in the turning the razor towards you and away from you test. If I had to sit in a room for eternity either turning it towards me or away from me I would choose towards me, and I would even add a in a slight lifting motion from time to time If it meant I could afford myself that privelage of going towards instead of away. The eternity scenario is the best way to gauge time saving even if you think youve already got it as fast as it can go.


    Its all about control and comfort knowing you have control even if you dont need it on that particular razor, altho definitly for difficult razors that need a bit of controlling.


    Is it really possible to create too in depth an analysis on these subjects?
    Anyway thats my extra 2 cents.
    Last edited by GregJDS; 11-28-2009 at 06:56 PM.
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  • 11-28-2009, 07:22 PM #3
    Bart
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregJDS View Post
    Is it really possible to create too in depth an analysis on these subjects?

    I guess not. I believe Maestro Livi does it your way, so at least you're in good company. I'm just more comfortable keeping the spine in contact with the surface at all times. Rolling, swooping or regular X-strokes. Makes no difference.

    If I understand correctly, you turn the razor by turning your wrist. If you would reverse your wrist, so that the away stroke is "palm up" and the stroke back to you is "palm down" (the opposite of what you do now), your would automatically turn over the spine. You would no longer need to lift the razor up that way. (saves time, but let's agree that honing is not a speed contest)

    A genuine apology Richmondesi, for taking it that far off topic. I can't help myself.

    Kind regards,
    Bart.
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  • 11-28-2009, 07:25 PM #4
    richmondesi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post


    A genuine apology Richmondesi, for taking it that far off topic. I can't help myself.

    Kind regards,
    Bart.
    Thanks, but that's not necessary Bart. This discussion may potentially "fix" my stroke lowering the risk of damage. I'm always more interested in learning and improving than being "right"
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  • 11-29-2009, 12:13 AM #5
    GregJDS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post

    I guess not. I believe Maestro Livi does it your way, so at least you're in good company. I'm just more comfortable keeping the spine in contact with the surface at all times. Rolling, swooping or regular X-strokes. Makes no difference.

    If I understand correctly, you turn the razor by turning your wrist. If you would reverse your wrist, so that the away stroke is "palm up" and the stroke back to you is "palm down" (the opposite of what you do now), your would automatically turn over the spine. You would no longer need to lift the razor up that way. (saves time, but let's agree that honing is not a speed contest)

    A genuine apology Richmondesi, for taking it that far off topic. I can't help myself.

    Kind regards,
    Bart.
    LOL , I thought we were exactly on topic for once.
    On the wrist turning thing that would be a negative. No wrist turning.

    In the video below I show whati meant by turning it towards you,
    try doing the same flips away from you , its pretty impossible, although maybe you could master it although i think its going against the grain of the design of our hands.
    Im turning it with my index and thumb , although out of shot my last 2 fingers are stabalising and turning the outstretched scales/tail also.

    YouTube - MOV062.MOD


    Hope that makes a bit more sense, I know i made a honing mistake or two in the video but it was really to show the flipping not the honing. Although anyone who wants to throw in some crriticism do anyway, somebody might get some use out of it , might even be me.


    Definitly not a speed contest, I was talking more along the lines of efficiency and control. Although you could take it and speed up the method or slow it down depending on how good at it you are.
    If im in the zone i can do it really fast. Depends on how confident you are not to make a mistake.
    Doing it fast you need the mood of that guy who climbs the worlds tallest buildings without ropes or safety gear.

    As you said earlier thought, each to their own, because everyone is comfortable with different methods for very different reasons.
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  • 11-29-2009, 12:25 AM #6
    JimmyHAD
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    I hone at a moderate pace. As a friend of mine likes to say, "methodical and deliberate'. Like Bart I keep the razor on the hone throughout and flip on the spine. I also do an x stroke whether rolling or otherwise. The exception being circles and back and forth strokes. Whatever works is whatever works though. Different strokes for different folks.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.
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  • 11-28-2009, 07:33 PM #7
    Lynn
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    Honing is all about mistakes. The best way for someone to learn the good, the bad and the ugly is through making mistakes. When we started a few years ago, there basically were no good instructions for people to learn how to hone, so we have established "guidelines" or a few basic processes for people to learn from. Now we have so much more information available that the opportunity to learn and do well is really great. The basics remain the basics. Every person has to learn an even stroke and an amount of pressure that works well for them as well as what stone and media they prefer. Nothing will replace the fact that the more you hone and the more different things you try, the better you will get. If you hone just for your own use or if you eventually hone a ton of razors, you will continue to learn every time you approach a hone. I think people who end up honing hundreds of razors under stand that you don't know what you don't know at 100 or 200 or 500 razors and even after thousands, you are still learning and of course, still making mistakes. This is the fun of the sport.

    One hand, two hands, solid surface, held in the hand, naturals, sythetics, Nortons, Naiwas, Shaptons, rolling, 45 degree angle, X pattern, straight strokes, circles, pressure, no pressure, breadknifing, thin hones, wide hones, oil, water, lather, slurry, pastes, sprays and on and on.......So much fun stuff to try and so many great razors to try them on.

    The objective remains......that just a little bit better shave that will be considered perfect beyond compare........

    Keep those mistakes coming and have fun,

    Lynn
    Keep those mistakes coming.
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  • The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Lynn For This Useful Post:

    ChrisL (11-29-2009), JeffR (12-16-2009), JimmyHAD (11-28-2009), richmondesi (11-28-2009)
  • 11-28-2009, 07:41 PM #8
    richmondesi
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    Is it weird that I got excited reading that last post thinking about all the new things that I've yet to try?
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  • 11-29-2009, 04:47 AM #9
    ChrisL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Honing is all about mistakes. The best way for someone to learn the good, the bad and the ugly is through making mistakes. When we started a few years ago, there basically were no good instructions for people to learn how to hone, so we have established "guidelines" or a few basic processes for people to learn from. Now we have so much more information available that the opportunity to learn and do well is really great. The basics remain the basics. Every person has to learn an even stroke and an amount of pressure that works well for them as well as what stone and media they prefer. Nothing will replace the fact that the more you hone and the more different things you try, the better you will get. If you hone just for your own use or if you eventually hone a ton of razors, you will continue to learn every time you approach a hone. I think people who end up honing hundreds of razors under stand that you don't know what you don't know at 100 or 200 or 500 razors and even after thousands, you are still learning and of course, still making mistakes. This is the fun of the sport.

    One hand, two hands, solid surface, held in the hand, naturals, sythetics, Nortons, Naiwas, Shaptons, rolling, 45 degree angle, X pattern, straight strokes, circles, pressure, no pressure, breadknifing, thin hones, wide hones, oil, water, lather, slurry, pastes, sprays and on and on.......So much fun stuff to try and so many great razors to try them on.

    The objective remains......that just a little bit better shave that will be considered perfect beyond compare........

    Keep those mistakes coming and have fun,

    Lynn
    Keep those mistakes coming.
    Very cool, Lynn. Thanks for this. It's absolutely true for me like you've said, EVERY time I hone a razor I learn something new.

    My deviation from what's commonly considered as "standard"? I use my left index finger tip to stabilize (two handed honer) and it suits me and my razors perfectly well. The only sucky thing that can happen IME with that is the potential for dinging the edge on the index fingernail on the flip......well, that and getting cut if you're not careful.

    Chris L
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    "Aw, Pretty Boy, can't you show me nuthin but surrender?" Patti Smith
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