Thread: Knife Honing

Hey, I know this would be more appropriately asked in a knife forum, but since I am a member here and know people and things and am more comfortable I'd rather ask here than as a new member in a knife forum.
First off, are any of the honemeisters here also avid knife honemeisters (besides Olivia who I already know is)? Just asking so I can redirect to PM or otherwise and I don't spam the forum.
Second off, is sharpening a knife the same as a razor? Obviously this is a duh question because they are both steel and need a bevel and what not, but are the grits and stones and techniques used the same or not? Besides the obvious needing to maintain an angle on a knife.

Hey K,

I am a nut for sharp tools and cutlery. Although I own a complete set of Shapton Glastones, you can get and maintain a great edge on a (non-serrated) knife with alot less. In answer to your original question, no, sharpening a knife is not the same as sharpening a razor except that it is exactly the same. The difference is that with a razor, you have a nice built-in bevel angle guide called the spine. A knife has to be held to the stone at the appropriate angle. Other than that, sharpening is sharpening. It doesn't matter if you are sharpening a santoku or a sword. There are some edges that are one sided, like chisels, adzes and some carving tools. Here is a link to a site with nice color pictures:

http://www.cornerhardware.com/howto/ht083.html

I'm not a honemeister of anything, but I have made more than my share of knives sharp. Sharpening a knife for general cutting is at about 30 degrees. The hard part is keeping the angle consistent. There are many aids on the market to help consistancy, but I tend not to use them. Also as far as stones are concerned, I have never used anything finer than a soft arkansas stone( between 1k and 4k I believe). Like I said I'm not an expert but haven't needed a regular knife sharper than I could make it.

and apparently don't type fast enough

Some people use the x stroke on knives. Most people I know run the knife parallel with the stone in back and forth strokes. Knives really don't get the alternating strokes like razors do. They have their own pyramid.

I Typically work my way up the grits. 20 on one side, 20 on the other, 15,15,12,12,9,9,5,5,4,4,3,3,2,2,1,1. Then if I feel like it I may do a couple additional alternating sweeps. You can usually eyeball the edge to see if it's straight until you get to the higher grits (then a perpendicular TPT tells you). Then I go to the next stone up and repeat. Of course you would start with more or less strokes depending on the pressure you use, but I tend to use pretty consistent pressure throughout the stages, as I don't like backing off on pressure at higher stones. Unless I'm working out a chip or a badly dinged edge. Keep in mind that knife edges (most) are angled so
you have to sweep a knife, it's not a straight back and forth. Kind of similar to a VERY heavily smiling razor that only smiles at the toe.

Yes, this means you must Stroke 8"+ wide, maintaining an angle, holding substantial weight, and sweeping the stroke. You also must apply pressure, but it must be the right amount of pressure for the knife, the angle, the grit of the stone, etc. Sharpening a razor is like riding a big wheel whereas a knife is like a crotch rocket. I can't even imagine the skill that goes into sharpening those 40" swords.

Of course there's a dozen or more popular ways to sharpen a knife and there are plenty of good videos of doing it online.

I'm sure I've forgotten plenty of what I meant to say, but there are a few chefs on this board and I'd wager they can add to it. I may edit later if I notice any glaring gaps.


Black arkansas is plenty high for a European chefs knife. Some kits end at White hard level. Blacks are 900-1000 (US, ~8k Mesh). Whites are 600-800 (~3-5k mesh)

Basically you'll want the same as the recommended starter for razors (imho, the recommended starter grits for razors are MORE applicable to knives). I'd STRONGLY recommend oilstones or DMT. A single knife sharpening will make say, a Norton Water stone less than flat. It won't be so out of whack you can't do knives on it, but it probably won't be ideal for a razor until you lap it again. I just used my 1.2k dmt on my wustof for the first time... If you have the money buy that stone. Flat out, no question. Get the 10-11" version if you have the cash. The 8" works, but you'll definitely want the bench for it. Then I'd grab the biggest White and Black hards you can afford.

Or cheaper end, grab a triangle in the $40-120 range. Most will be Synth/White/Black or Synth/Synth/Black or triple Synths. I've used various versions of these for almost a decade. They all seem to work just fine. The smaller ones make the X stroke more appealing as a parallel sweep is more difficult on a 4x1 or 4x2" stone. 6+ should be fine for that sweep though.

The way I was taught by my old man when I was about 14 was to use an alternating X stroke. I don't remember what we sharpened on. When I was in my early 20s I bought a Smith's Wash!ta and a soft Arkansas. I'd get my pocket knives plenty sharp with those.

I've never sharpened larger knives for the kitchen or for the field so I can't speak to that but I sure like the Wash!ta and the soft Arkansas for the pocket knives. Since coming to SRP and razor honing I've tried a Tam and my DMTs on pocket knives and like those too.

Yeah pocketknives are small enough that I'd use an X on them. 8-10" blade chefs I feel a parallel sweep is much better unless your stone is very small (sweeping on a 1" wide is uncomfortable for me).

I also use X's on knifes with recessed blades (edge behind the hilt). Boning knives specifically. Otherwise you're gonna scrape your knuckles.


Washita is the low stone on some triangles, but synthetics seem much more common. I'm not entirely sure why. Cost, durability, etc? No clue.


Oh almost forgot. If someone refers to knife honing. That's our equivalent of stropping. It means swiping the blade on a steel. We refer to sharpening as sharpening (or grinding). However, Honing steels are also referred to as sharpening steels. Though if you every claim to be sharpening a razor with one, you'll get laughed at. It can be confusing in it's own way I guess.

See link: http://www.cutleryandmore.com/wusthof_sharp.htm

I HATE honing away from myself. And I've never seen a professional chef do it. I think it's kind of a recent development since the foodie generation got high end knives into home kitchens. Maybe yuppies were cutting themselves? Personally even for a new honer, I'd say just find a steel with a WIDE handguard. I've seen some chopped up steel handguards at work, every cut on it is a cut that WASN'T on someone's hand.

if you want a really pro sharpened knife (what knives do you have by the way) here:
Japanese Knife Sharpening
Dave is what you would consider a honemeister on knives.
I can sharpen kitchen knives of any kind too( I have a posted service for that).
As far as parallel vs x pattern it does not matter as long as one can maintain the angles.In terms of technique knife sharpening is not the same as razor sharpening, but the standard synthetic stones i.e Super Stone, Chosera etc are good for knives too. when you sharpen knives you do not need high finisher since the very fine edge will be gone right after the first cut , what you really need is more toothier edge to cut easier. Usually knife sharpening stops @ 10k and then one does a few passes on CrO/diamond spray strop

His prices aren't bad for mail order on Europeans. I assume European brand Japanese styles fall under European? My father likes his Santoku's. Do his prices include return shipping? Might make a nice gift to my father without having to lug my stones around this Christmas.

And he reserrates... NICE. I'll be using that on my breadknife sooner or later.

Originally Posted by IanS

His prices aren't bad for mail order on Europeans. I assume European brand Japanese styles fall under European? My father likes his Santoku's. Do his prices include return shipping? Might make a nice gift to my father without having to lug my stones around this Christmas.

And he reserrates... NICE. I'll be using that on my breadknife sooner or later.

If you are talking about Dave's prices, the best way to find out is as always to give him a call or e-mail, I have no idea what he charges.

Thanks for all the answers. Basically my dad needs his Wusthof's sharpened and my mom needs her 30+ y/o zwilling knives sharpened (yes they have different tastes lol) and I want to learn. Obviously I would practice before going at their knives but its somethign I would like to possibly send out for now but in the long run learn. So thanks for all the responses.

Ian- you might be interested in this. My dad is a vet, and while they do specialize, they are less specialized than our doctors, and like doctors initially learn all parts of medicine. In vet school they taught them to hold the steel downward in your left fist (as if you were to stab someone with it) but hold it up so your bicep is flexed and cut away from yourself. Apparently this is more stable. That's how they sharpen knives and various blades for autopsy and for dissection so... take it as you will.
Also, he grew up on a farm and remembered his dad trying to teach him stones but he doesn't remember how or what kind, since the advent of the little groove thingies. Also related to growing up on a farm he skins/dresses/butchers animals, as well as the whole dissection thing so he really needs and knows sharp knives and his "steel technique" (the away cutting one) seems to work so I guess its half a dozen of one six of another.