Thread: Naniwa & Spike Mystery

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

If they're the ones I'm thinking of, they are about quarter hollow.

I was just talking with JoeD about this today, and he shared some of his knowledge on the subject with me. Roughly: Different hones work differently on different blades based in part on the hardness of the hone (abrasive and binder) and the hardness of the steel.

what I said in my post earlier in the thread.

Originally Posted by mainaman

It could be related to the hones themselves @ their respective grit levels.
I have a 3k chosera, that when used with slurry will work very fast on most razors, but will also chip the edged on some razors which to me means that depending on the steel you might have to use stones from different lines. When you go up in the progression with superstones, they become easier to gouge, may be due to that and the steel properties you are damaging the edge?
If possible try other set of stones and see what happens.

Originally Posted by mainaman

what I said in my post earlier in the thread.

No, that's not what I was thinking of. I have limited experience on Naniwas (maybe honed 25 razors on them), but I've never heard of gouging one during normal honing, regardless of the razor being used, and I can't think of how you would gouge one during normal honing. I've seen Naniwas that have had hundreds or thousands of razors honed on them, and no gouges there at all. I also can't imagine a Naniwa chipping a razor, even with slurry, given how soft those hones seem to be, but if you say it's happened to you, I don't disbelieve you. Also, the Chosera and the SuperStones are two different lines of hones.

What JoeD was telling me was about the hardness of the steel (how tough it is to cut), the hardness of the abrasive in the hone and the rate it breaks down, and the toughness of the binder and how resistant it is to releasing old grit to allow you to reach new grit.

I really like the superstones. They do load up and I hone in front of the sink and lap from time to time to clean swarf but I find them to be really good in that they cut fast enough to let you know you're making progress but not too fast if you watch what you're doing. I haven't run into any chipping on edges or gouging of the rocks on my set yet.

When metal comes off during honing, undoubtedly subsequent honing action grinds the removed metal into the hone. This is unavoidable. Since I started scrubbing the hone with a rag often, while spraying water over the hone, the buildup of swarf occurs much less rapidly. And, I lap less frequently.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

No, that's not what I was thinking of. I have limited experience on Naniwas (maybe honed 25 razors on them), but I've never heard of gouging one during normal honing, regardless of the razor being used, and I can't think of how you would gouge one during normal honing. I've seen Naniwas that have had hundreds or thousands of razors honed on them, and no gouges there at all. I also can't imagine a Naniwa chipping a razor, even with slurry, given how soft those hones seem to be, but if you say it's happened to you, I don't disbelieve you. Also, the Chosera and the SuperStones are two different lines of hones.

What JoeD was telling me was about the hardness of the steel (how tough it is to cut), the hardness of the abrasive in the hone and the rate it breaks down, and the toughness of the binder and how resistant it is to releasing old grit to allow you to reach new grit.

I said this among other things in my post

to me means that depending on the steel you might have to use stones from different lines

different stones respond differently to different steels.

My freshest example was a Japanese straight razor, I had to set a bevel and remove some chips, so I started on 1k, with no slurry but the steel was very hard so I made slurry and I got great result.
I proceeded on 3k Cosera with slurry and amazingly enough I saw microchipping, which honed out with no slurry. I have never had a problem with slurry on the 3k Chosera before.

As far as gouging this was overstatement, since the raozr is fixed on the surface unlike a knife, but if Larry has the chance to try a stone that is not naniwa SS @3k+ level, I am sure that will give insight of what is going on, provided the bevel is set properly on his 1k SS.

Originally Posted by LarryAndro

When metal comes off during honing, undoubtedly subsequent honing action grinds the removed metal into the hone. This is unavoidable. Since I started scrubbing the hone with a rag often, while spraying water over the hone, the buildup of swarf occurs much less rapidly. And, I lap less frequently.

maybe this has something to do with it. with light continuous lapping a consistent surface is maintained, making it easier to judge what one or another edge is doing.

Or could be VES, the old vintage edge syndrome. Sometimes it just happens that only after enough of the old is removed does the edge begin to act normally.