Thread: Barber Hones For Newbies

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I'm gettinghones in hopesof minimizing my use of the Norton 4/8K. It's a mess. Wherever possible I try to use a dry hone, for convenience.

Give that Norton 8K a try dry for touch up's.
I use my Norton 8K as a touch up hone now that I have the bloody razor good and sharp, and it works like a charm.
I did clean, lap, rinse and re-rinse the hone so it’s like new now. The razor glides across like velvet with the slightest drag, and usually only two passes per side will bring the edge back to excellence for me.

I was kind of reluctant to use the Norton dry with the big deal they make about soaking it.

Originally Posted by Kelly

There are so many people asking what hone to get from Tilly and so few of us took the plunge and picked up an alternate to the Norton.

For me, I'd pick up a Norton only as an alternate to Barber hones

Hal

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I was kind of reluctant to use the Norton dry with the big deal they make about soaking it.

Haha... well spending $60 on a synthetic (man made) water hone can make one be overly cautious. Personally, I love Norton products, but feel they are a trifle over priced. That alone is the reason I've never purchased one over 1000grit for my knives.

I didn’t see too much emphasis placed on using the 8K with water, in fact it was the lacking emphasis that encouraged me to try it. The pamphlet that came with hone states to 'soak the 4k side for 10min' prior to use but only says that a 'slight splash' of water is necessary for the 8k side. So tossing caution to the wind I went for broke and was very pleased with the results.

Keep in mind we are talking about those subtle, 2-3 gentle pass style touch up's, not actual honing.

Originally Posted by halwilson

For me, I'd pick up a Norton only as an alternate to Barber hones

I purchased the Norton because my razor was pretty much trashed (by my own hand to make matters worse) and I knew I'd need a hone with dual purpose and a good track record haha... Now that I have my razor shaving sharp and I know what I'm doing a little better.. I think a couple of good barber hones would suit me better, If for no other reason that convenience.

The 8"X3" bench hone is great for knives but just too bulky IMO for razors. I've never used more than half the hone at any time anyway. I wish they would produce the 8K in a 6"X2", and you'd have the best available, current production, "barber/razor hone".

I was surfing my favorite edge toy retail site (knifecenter) last night and noticed they were now selling the Spyderco Ceramic Bench hone (Ultra Fine) described as "razor hone"!?!
I went to the Spyderco forum (because I'm a Spydie-nut my self) and did a search and there are a few people there being advised to use that hone on old straight razors. I'd be interested in any experiences with this hone since it was my impression that it was some where in the 4K-6K range.

Originally Posted by Kelly

The 8"X3" bench hone is great for knives but just too bulky IMO for razors. I've never used more than half the hone at any time anyway. I wish they would produce the 8K in a 6"X2", and you'd have the best available, current production, "barber/razor hone".

I am with you on this. I hone all (6 of them) my razors at one sitting, and hone holding the Norton in my hand. After some time, my left hand is starting to fall off, and the hand with the razor follows, forcing mistakes... the barber hones come in smaller dimensions for this exact purpose...

Nenad

It is interesting that hand holding the stone seems to work better other than it's bulk.
Even on paddle strops I notice a difference. If I use my paddle flat on a table I have more difficulty keeping the razor flat than when I lay the strop across my knee and let it "float" along with the movement of the razor.

Tony

Originally Posted by Kelly

I was surfing my favorite edge toy retail site (knifecenter) last night and noticed they were now selling the Spyderco Ceramic Bench hone (Ultra Fine) described as "razor hone"!?!

I went to the Spyderco forum (because I'm a Spydie-nut my self) and did a search and there are a few people there being advised to use that hone on old straight razors. I'd be interested in any experiences with this hone since it was my impression that it was some where in the 4K-6K range.

I have one and it seems finer than even 8K. I've heard some estimates that it could be close to 12K. The fine is around 4K.

Hello Kelly,

I have the Spyderco med-fine-ultrfine hones and have used them on razors.
I have put them away.
When the hone is new it has "high points" that will immediately chip a razor.
You have to lap the hones to remove the "high points" and be sure to also do the same thing to the edges. The reason is simple. The grit in those hones is harder then the razor. So when the razor meets the hone guess which one wins? The hone.
The dimensions of the hones seems awkward to me. I am far more comfortable with the 3" Norton or a barber hone.

However, that being said in all fairness some other people are using those hones and really like them. Just be sure to remove the "high points" before using the hones.

Originally Posted by Kelly

was surfing my favorite edge toy retail site (knifecenter) last night and noticed they were now selling the Spyderco Ceramic Bench hone (Ultra Fine) described as "razor hone"!?!
I went to the Spyderco forum (because I'm a Spydie-nut my self) and did a search and there are a few people there being advised to use that hone on old straight razors. I'd be interested in any experiences with this hone since it was my impression that it was some where in the 4K-6K range.

Joe Lerch, that’s an interesting comparison. There has been many attempts to get a straight answer on the relative grit of Spyderco Hones to no avail. Sal, the company rep on the board avoids the question like the plague. Sal’s response is always:

“grit measurement on ceramic does not work like regular abrasives. The particle size is 15 microns. The grit is the result of the firing processes. Medium, fine and ultra fine.

Sal”

And that is about as “technical” an answer as anyone ever gets out of Sal.

The guru’s there rate the ultra fine at 4K-6K at best. In fact this is the first time I've heard anyone suggest it even close to the 8K range of the Norton. One of the members there gave a fairly good perspective (for those of us used to traditional water stones) where he allegedly used the scratch pattern as viewed under microscope as his basis:

“Sal has said many times that it is very difficult to define a grit rating for the ceramic rods or stones. So the grit rating for the ceramic stones should be taken with a grain of salt. from personal experience I would say that by comparison with japanese waterstones the grays would fall in the 700-1000 range, the whites I would rate around 2000-3000, and the ultrafine rods at around 4000-6000 grit. This is all japanese grit ratings (obviously). Abrasives are usually rated by particle size, but the ceramic stones do not consist of individual particles, so I compared the scratch pattern at the edge under a microscope. In the end I guess the best way to lable those ceramic stones is like Sal said: medium, fine, ultra fine. This, by the way corresponds quite well with the japanese consideration of their stone grits: coarse up to about 700, medium 1000-2000, and finishing stones 4000-15000, where the finishing stones are usually devided into a first and second step (sometimes more). First step at 4000-6000, second step: 8000-15000 the latter usually being made to correspond to various natural stones. The above is only a very rough description and somebody who finishes for example swords for a living would probably take offense. I just tried to give a very rough overview on what is out there. In the end, many people still prefer natural stones over man made stones, and those aren't grit rated either. So medium fine and ultrafine is probably more than precise enough for most people."

I still think the designation of “medium”, “fine” and “ultra fine” are too generalized for most knife enthusiasts.

With the trend on doing “tests” here recently, this would be a fun one for someone with both the Spyderco Hone and a microscope.

Randy, your experience with the ceramic material is sadly not uncommon. Anyone using a new ceramic hone even for knives would be well served to lap the bloody thing prior to use. They are notorious for having raised material and "floating" particles that dig deeply into the blade untill worn down slightly.

Personally I would prefer the 2” hone because the blade would erode/ware the hone equally through out the width of the hone. Leaving only the ends to keep an eye on for lapping. Plus I have small hands and the smaller and lighter nature would be more comfortable for me. Your right, holding the hone can and does make all the difference in your technique. But, of course size and technique is a matter of personal experience and perspective.

Its good to hear that there is yet another option for those who may want to stray away from the Norton for what ever reasons. Options are always a good thing, and at the price of $45 it’s a trifle cheaper than the usual Norton, even in single grit (based on common retail that is)

Hi Guys ... I'm having the afore mentioned set sent to me along with a ready honed Dovo ( i currently have a shop purchased not shave ready dovo ) can't wait to have a good shave with the shave ready Dovo .
Yourselves and Tilly mention Lappling and 'several laps ' with the hone is this simply a term for honing your razor or is this something that should be done prior to introducing your razor to the hone ...
Looking forward to reading your advice guidance
Garry ...