Thread: Can someone explain the difference between...

A Barber's Hone and a Naniwa 12k? This may be a really bad question, or it may be good, but, all I know is that when I took a visit to Mr. Abrams to get a honing lesson, and he gave me a demo on a Gold Dollar (208) he went 1k to set the Bevel, then the norton 4k/8k combo, then a Naniwa 12k, then a .5 Diamond sprayed Wool Felt strop. That was done. Then he gave me a Crox crayon, and told me if the edge eddies down, the crayon on a Nylon strop should be all I need for a while.

So, what is the difference between the N12k, and a Barber's hone?

Also, when I was getting this demo, instead of the "Pyramid" I hear so much about, Mr. Abrams did 40 small circles on both sides of the blade on each grit level, repeating if the end product wasn't good enough, but never went back a grit level as the pyramid suggests, and each round of circles was followed by 10 "X" laps... Can anyone explain to me the difference between the pyramid and this? (in results, not the difference in methods)

Also, I can't find the logic of the "Pyramid" Why does it have you go BACK in grit ratings? I'm new, so there's the flaw, but this seems counterproductive to me.

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Thanks, guys
Cheers,
Jeremy

I believe the wiki suggests there is no logic to it. (Something about their having detailed proof of why it works... but lost it.) It just works in many members experience, so they do it. I don't use it personally.


Barbers hones are typically smaller, cheaper, and vary widely in grit. The best ones seem to be around the rated grit of the Naniwa. That's the obvious stuff.

The differences between a Naniwa 12.000 and a barber hone vary with the different barber hones.
There are many barber hones out there, with very different grits.

The finest barber hone I heard of was (in grit size!) equal to the naniwa 12k.
But the grit size alone does not tell the hole story.
The Naniwa 12k has a very different feel to it, when honing.

But if you already have a good barber hone you will not need a naniwa 12k.
The difference will be the same as the difference between Naniwa 12k and Shapton 16k
-> both work but both do it differently.

The logic in the Pyramid can not be explained and there is no effort being made to do so.
Just try it, if it works: stick to it. If it doesn´t, do something else.
I never tried it, though

The pyramid prevents the need to learn when to move up in grit.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

The pyramid prevents the need to learn when to move up in grit.

+1, IOW, a new honer is less likely to stay on a coarser hone too long and 'overhone'. That is the rational I read on it when I came around. IIRC I've heard Lynn say, "I don't know why it works but it works." Interesting on Lynn's alternate honing technique using the 40 circles and the 10 x strokes. Shows that he is ever experimenting and learning even after all these years. Dylan (holli4) had mentioned Lynn using this technique a couple of weeks ago in a post.

On the barber hone.... IMO....not to my knowledge.... it is a combination of the abrasive and the binder. A good barber hone is meant to cut fast and fine. It is for touching up a sharp edge that is falling off a bit. That is why instructions that come with them stress using very few strokes.

A Naniwa 12k is a sure enough finishing stone and will cut fine but not as fast as a barber hone. This is due to the shape and consistency of the abrasive and the composition of the binder. Again, the above is my impression, not scientifically gained knowledge.

I'm no expert here, but I am one with opinions on nearly everything, so here goes. The pyramid honing system is useful for the beginning honer to use in sharpening a razor with minimal worry of creating an edge with a burr, or as it more oftenly called, overhoning. This condition has a feather-like burr of metal foil that extends out from the edge of razor. This burr is extremely fine and flexible and pieces if it can break off leaving a wickedly erose edge that will not shave, may cut, and could even leave microscopic bits of metal under the skin. So progressing from fine to finer grits and occasionally going back to a coarser grit will help to prevent this vexacious and maybe viscious burr from forming.

As you train in developing your proficiency of honing razors, the pyramid system may no longer be the style for you and a progression from fine to finer hones might be all you need to use to create that "razor" edge. Then, of course, in this honing curriculum you will learn variants of the straight strokes, the X pattern strokes, and the series of circles, etc: all things, of course, to be tried on your menagerie of natural and man-made hones.

good luck and Happy New Year,

Alright! Thanks, everyone. Guess I'll stick with the Norton 1, 4/8 and the Naniwa 12, then go to diamond or Crox, then strop.

Thanks again
Cheers,
Jeremy