Thread: Correct use of a Thuringian/Escher

Originally Posted by khaos

Hmmm. So if I were to set teh bevel on my Nani 1k, sharpen on teh 3k and 5k, then IN THEORY could go to a big 8x2 Thury with slurry? And finish on my vintage, nice 5x1 Thury without slurry?

In terms of time obviously I don't expect it to be as fast as going 1k->3k->5k->8k->finisher, but how many laps (obviously, a range, given uniqueness) did you find yourself doing on the thury with slurry, given a good bevel setting? 100? 200? 500?

Thanks!

Nowhere near that. I might do 10 with slurry and try a TPT or popping hair and then do 10 more with slurry and dilute and do a few laps until I was down to water only. I would say play around with it. That is what I have done. I wish I had written a lot of this down but I just haven't had the discipline to do that.

Many times I haven't used the slurry .... sometimes I do and follow with water only. Sometimes I just use water. Usually with finishing on an Escher with water only I might do 30 round trips and then give it a try. If I felt I needed more I would do more. Sometimes I have and other times I haven't. I have done 100 an a dark blue once just for the heck of it but ordinarily I wouldn't do that many. On that occasion the razor got super sharp BTW.

It depends on the razor and the hones leading up to the Escher. I don't have a conclusive formula of x amount of laps with slurry and x amount with water as if it was a pyramid. It is hone and test and maybe hone some more and then maybe go shave. A lot of it is intuition. That is my experience at this stage of my game. YMMV.

Mueller Thuringians are approx. same grit as a good coticule or slightly finer. The vintage ones are similar to Eschers.

Originally Posted by zib

A lot of guys are under the impression that slurries lower the grit range, which they don't. It just makes the hone work faster.

I don't think all that many people actually think that slurry lowers the grit range. Mostly because it makes no sense that it possibly could do such a thing. It does, however have a similar effect. ie. It causes the hone to remove steel more quickly and results in a less keen edge.

Originally Posted by zib

..If you need a lower grit, use a lower grit hone...That's what I was told by a very senior member when I started....

While I do agree that one should use the right tool for a given job, I still think that this quote is slightly misconceived. Or maybe I should say that it holds true more for synthetics (Where grit ratings rule supreme), than it does for naturals (Where grit ratings have less meaning).
What I am trying to say is that you don't NEED a lower grit hone. The use of a lower grit hone is not the objective, it is the tool. The objective is to remove more steel, and that can be acheived by the use of several tools. One of these tools is the use of a lower grit hone. Others are the use of slurry or pressure or even all three!

Edit: Upon reading, I realise the above may sound offensive or condacending. It was not intended as such. Your quoted text just gave me the ideal way to try and put my point across.

Depending on my next paycheck and the success of some razors I want to list soon I think I'll get a Mueller thuringen- the confirmation from Kees that it is slightly lower in grit, and the confirmation of theory from Rosco and Jimmy are my reasoning.

Yes, I know a few of you have said outright no, but as long as there are some yeses and maybes I think I would like to try this if finances permit.

Yes using a slurry on a precious Thury seems like a waste but really- how many coticules or jnats have been "slurried" through?

Yes it may be slow but I'm eager to try- it shouldn't be any slower than my swaty, Nakayama or current Thuringian so...

The final thing I guess is I think I have budding HAD, and I think I'm at the point where I want to experiment and "play" with the stones, rather than just use them as a means to an end.

Thanks for all your advice guys!

Originally Posted by Rosco

I don't think all that many people actually think that slurry lowers the grit range. Mostly because it makes no sense that it possibly could do such a thing. It does, however have a similar effect. ie. It causes the hone to remove steel more quickly and results in a less keen edge.



While I do agree that one should use the right tool for a given job, I still think that this quote is slightly misconceived. Or maybe I should say that it holds true more for synthetics (Where grit ratings rule supreme), than it does for naturals (Where grit ratings have less meaning).
What I am trying to say is that you don't NEED a lower grit hone. The use of a lower grit hone is not the objective, it is the tool. The objective is to remove more steel, and that can be acheived by the use of several tools. One of these tools is the use of a lower grit hone. Others are the use of slurry or pressure or even all three!

Edit: Upon reading, I realise the above may sound offensive or condacending. It was not intended as such. Your quoted text just gave me the ideal way to try and put my point across.

Karl, here is an old review by forum member Russel Baldridge. He used to contribute quite a bit in the honing section and to the forum in general at one time. A mentor before there were badges but alas he is no longer participating.

Thanks Jimmy that is a great help.

Why not get a naniwa 8000 instead?

the small thuringians are rather good for touch ups too, but i probably wouldn't want to go to them after naniwa 5000. In fact most of the time I use naniwa 12000 too before the thuringians, just because it's fast and consistent.

This is a good question. For a few reasons: they'll end up being roughly the same price (the nani will be a little more but not much), I like the idea of naturals more than synthetics, and I kind of want a "toy" more than a "tool". I want both, but finances dictate that I can probably only have one, and thats a maybe too lol.