Thread: Oh Gods of honing, I need some help.

Ok,

I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to honing, so please forgive me, and hopefully someone will be able to help me out.

I bought my razor nearly 2 years ago, my pride and joy that i had wanted for so long, and i had no idea that places like srp even existed! I bought a Dovo Solingen Prima Klang new, and it came actually shave ready. It was beautiful, and I really begun to learn to shave properly and appreciate what a good razor was. It lasted very well with just stropping, but eventually it was time to touch up the blade edge. I bought a Norton 4000/8000 water hone after researching forever and watching every video of how to hone there is. A gave it a few tentative tries, and had varying success as you might expect, but then i was learning.

Now however, it's not going well. Looking back over the last year or so, the blade's sharpness in general has been in decline, and my attempts to get it back to code have not only not really worked, but may have added to the problem over time. I've spent hours watching people hone well on youtube and stuff like that, and I really concentrate and try each time, but there's obviously something not right. I've just had a shave and it wasn't particularly pretty. I feel stupid now because I thought I'd give it one more bash, with 50 passes on each of the grits of the Norton to see if that helped. it didn't. from looking at what some people have said, that may not have been the thing to do either. A big concern is that I don't want to damage the razor and go on like this. The time has most probably come to get someone to hone it properly for me, but what then, won't i just have the same problem a little later down the line? I would like to send it away for a professional job, but i also want to be able to care for my own razor.

Can anyone help? I just have a strop and the Norton stone, and i really don't have a lot of money either (student, just graduated), but i thought that buying the proper waterstone was a good investment and should see me right. Someone please help! I used to really look forward to my shave, it made me feel good. Now it hurts and i have to use a mach 3. Its like getting back into a clapped out Volvo after getting used to my ferrari.

thanks for lookin'

Jim

Welcome to SRP!

If you check out the Classifieds under Member Services you will find contact info for some of the very top guys for razor sharpening and restoration. It's not expensive and will definitely bring back that Ferrari feel back to your razor. We also have a ton of information in the Wiki and in the Honing forum that will get you on the right track with your Norton.

You have come to the right place for straight razor information.

hey jim welcome aborad, where are you located at mabey someone close by can help you out.

Welcome to SRP Jim. Some questions, will the razor 'pop' hair off your forearm without touching the skin if you touch the blade to the hair ? If the answer is no will it shave hair on your forearm if you try it allowing the edge to touch the skin ? Talking for the length of the blade.

If it won't do either of those having an eye loupe or a hand held microscope would be nice to take a look at the bevel and see what the condition is visually. Not necessary though if you haven't got one.

Sending it to a pro would be a sure thing. It should last you for some time with correct stropping. OTOH, since you cannot shave with it now and you've already tried honing it if you want to give it another go take a look at the 1961 barber manual excerpt on honing in the SRP Wiki here.

Also check out Lynn's latest honing video here . Between both of those you may get somewhere. Another question is whether you ever flattened the norton ? Here is a tutorial on that.

Maybe sending it to a pro would be the thing to do and pick up a couple of flea market or antique shop vintage razors in good condition to practice your honing. That would give you a pro honed razor to shave with as well as a benchmark to judge your progress with the practice razors. Eventually they would all be shaving you.

Here is the SRP Wiki, check out the beginner's guide and all of the other good stuff.

Jimmy and everyone else has given great advice already...

But definitely the Where are you question is the biggie, because if you are close to somebody that can not only sharpen yer razor, but give you a hands on honing lesson you are golden...

Originally Posted by Bill S

Welcome to SRP!

If you check out the Classifieds under Member Services you will find contact info for some of the very top guys for razor sharpening and restoration. It's not expensive and will definitely bring back that Ferrari feel back to your razor. We also have a ton of information in the Wiki and in the Honing forum that will get you on the right track with your Norton.

You have come to the right place for straight razor information.

Welcome....

Bill's hint to have one of the hone masters tidy it up
could be the fastest way.

Since you have a new Norton 4/8K tell us more about how you
use the hone. With a Norton it is common to dress the new stone
on a flat surface and take it down a millimeter or so. The new
surface of a Norton seems to have bubbles and is a bit resin rich
and uneven. A wet/dry emery paper on a flat counter can do it.

Do search the Wiki on honing and the pyramid method.

Use the lightest touch possible. Always touch the back of the
blade to the hone first and let the sharp edge down gently.

One possible thing that may be going on is a factory edge can differ
from the one we can give on a hone. They often lift the back a bit
so the bevel is not the same one a hone gives. In a factory with
power tools this is common but there may be a need to reset the bevel
so it can be maintained by hand on a hone. If you send it out
a honemaster can fix this for you. This tidy bevel is one of the key
values in a shave ready blade service.


Since you have a Norton, and assuming my speculations....

• Tidy up the surfaces of the Norton -- first with a coarse wet dry paper to get
  it down about a millimeter. Then clean up the surface with 2000 grit wet dry so it is smoother for the razor. Do this on a FLAT surface.
  
• Mark the edge with a magic marker and make one light hone stroke on each side and inspect. You might quickly see if you have a good or absent bevel.
  
• Simple pyramid sequences should clean it up. It might take more than one or two sets of pyramid honing.

Others more expert than I will fill in the blanks and correct me.

Yeah, if you went down to the 4k, then you probably messed up the edge. If it wasn't giving a smooth shave even after stropping, then I would go to something finer than even the 8k Norton. If money is an issue, pick up a barber hone off ebay. There are several threads on here about barber hones (just do a search) and you can usually pick one up for a decent price. Swaty of course is the big one, but there are several others.

I'm also guessing you didn't lap the 4/8k hone when you got it. Those stones don't come REAL flat, and that can cause problems as well.

Like was said above, if you let us know where you are from, someone may be close to you that can hone it back up, and if close enough, give you some 1-on-1 help as well.

If you live somewhere close to me, I'd be glad to help you out if you like. Feel free to shoot me a PM anytime if you have questions

wow! what can i say except, thank you guys, great response. Thanks as well for your suggestions and links, they look really great. Bill, Ronnie, Jimmy, Gssixgun, Niftyshaving, Avatar- major thanks.

OK, to get down to some of your questions:

I'm in the UK, a place called Guildford, which is essentially just south of London. Looks like most of you guys are from the US, so if there's no UK'ers here, then i'm planning a wandering trip all up and down the west cost in the not too distant future, so i might have to drop a line here then and see if anyone's in the town i'm in, and in the meantime be happy with sending it away to be honed. But back to the present-

JimmyHad: No, the razor will not pop hair off my forearm, nor will it pass the hanging hair test, even when brought quite smartly against the hairs. It does however take the hair off when touching the skin, maybe a little less at the toe end and the bottom edge of the blade. It's only my forearm hair, which isn't particularly thick, so it doesn't hurt or 'drag' so much, but you can definitely feel it and hear it in a way you wouldn't be able to if it were sharp. i don't have a microscope or anything to look at the bevel. In fact my understanding of that area is limited; the bevel is essentially the shape and cutting angle of the blade, right?
I'll check out those links and see what's what there as well. and nope, never flattened the Norton. These things seem pretty well known around here, but they aren't discussed elsewhere. Getting the feeling that SRP is a different kettle of fish altogether...

The 'hands on' honing lesson that Gssixgun suggested would be perfect. recon that plus Jimmyhad's links would set me right up.

Bill: another detailed post, cheers! I haven't 'dressed' the Norton, i've not done anything to it really. When i use it i soak it for the time it says, get in on a flat surface in front of me and try to do the featherlight push and pull strokes i've been told to, and not use hardly any pressure at all. I'll check out the pyramid techniques and try to tidy up the Norton. Incidentally, i think i just read somewhere about smoothing off the sharp edges of the Norton being important, is that what you'd say? I'm not quite sure about the magic marker part; is that to see if the razor removes the inked part cleanly or poorly, which would show a good or absent bevel?

Avatar, thanks man, thats really good of you. unfortunately i don't live there, although i looked at some pics on google maps and i'm startin to wish i did... but cheers mate, i'll definitely take you up on the questions offer if i get any more.

Bill, Ronnie, hi guys, good to be here, and i'll check out those classifieds, and my glorious razor WILL be restored.

Thanks everyone, you guys are awesome.

Jim

Get in touch will Neil Miller who uses SRP (you can also contact him at strop www.strop-shop.co.uk). He lives in Essex, which should not be to far from you. Maybe Neil will show you how to hone. He can certainly hone razors for you, whether he'd be willing to teach is another matter.

Steve at The Invisible Edge (www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk) is also a great honemeister and can hone up razors superbly if you send it to him. He lives in Malvern though so I doubt he'd be able to teach you.

Good luck

Hey Jimmy,
I really like that Barber Manual, I am going to clean it up and remove the writing that is all over it and brighten it up so it is easier to read with a program I have. I will post it when I get it done. Thanks for posting that it is in the Wiki. Mack
Who ever posted it in there, thanks to you too.