Thread: New Ti 5/8, how much honing should it take?

Hello All,

I'm new to the forum, but have been searching and reading for quite some time now. I've purchased a new Ti 5/8 sheffield silver steel razor with Norton 4K/8K hone, Dovo hanging strop, etc.. from Classic Shaving. When I recieved everything in the mail the first thing I did was lap the stone with 3M 1K grit wet/dry on some glass. After convinced it was indeed flat, I tested my razor for sharpness. It took a few strokes on the ol' arm, but hair did slowly seem to be dissapearing. Nothing really awe inspiring though.
I flushed the new hone to rid it of any left over 1K grit and sat down at the table with hone and razor. I did the pyramid recommended for a razor that is almost keen (maybe I should have done aggressive honing). Checking for improvement after a few sequences to prevent over honing. I couldn't really detect any appreciatable difference of the edge. I tried one more pyramid and stropped for a test shave.
To say the least, it was not shave ready. I've done the pyramid a few times now and the razor continues to hack at my beard. I know I'm the one at fault, not the razor. I must be doing something wrong here, or maybe just not enough yet. Maybe just a little more patience. I'm just wondering how much honing is often required with a new Ti to get it shave ready? I tried the hair test and I haven't gotten one to successfully cut yet. Not even running the hair along the edge in a cutting motion does it.
My first attempt at stropping made me realize just how easy Lynn makes it look in the video. I noticed when I was coming back with the blade, that the edge was not making full contact with the strop. I felt the drag of the rear of the blade and thought that I was feeling some of the edge as well. Nope. I've since corrected myself. The last time I stropped I lifted the rear of the blade ever so slightly to ensure positive contact with the stropp. This time without the rear drag interference I could feel the edge making contact. The shave afterwards was somewhat improved and the edge did look more polished. Is this way of stropping a big oops on my part??
If anyone has any suggestions on honing sequences or stropping techniques I could use to get my razor shave ready I would be immensely grateful! My last shave with the razor was like a lumberjack hacking his way through a forest. It did cut some hair, but it was pulling and there was nothing close about the way it was cutting. Any help will be appreciated Thanks!

- Tony

Tony,

Welcome to the forum. I have the same issue. I have a new 6/8 TI and it seems to take a while to get pretty sharp. I have shaved with it a few times but it irritates me a little bit. I think that you should just keep trying the pyramids. I definately don't have the expertise to tell you how much. But just try small steps. Don't just wail away on it for a while after patience is lost. I am speaking from experience. Once that even edge is lost, us as newbies don't really have a benchmark at how to get it back to normal. So take it easy and keep testing it as you move through the pyramid and maybe you will need to send it off to someone to get a good idea of a sharp razor. I did that once and it was nice.

Good luck and sorry I couldn't be more help

Hi Folks,

very similar experience with my 6/8th. In the meanwhile I think that this lead-hardening process really makes the blade harder - which means also harder to hone !

For my usual honing procedure to work out I had to do quite a lot more strokes on the stones and the strops as with my other carbon steel razors. I did not count, but I think it amounts to nearly double the strokes necessary for a similar result.

Now its quite there in sharpness, but not really up to my trusty Timor which is my personal benchmark - so today its back to the pasted strops for a (hopefully) final touchup.....

Good luck to you,
-Axel-

This one is a little difficult for me but I'll toss in my two cents. My guess is that it was close to shave ready to begin with and needed to be stropped. From here its anybodys guess where your at (but it doesn't sound very good) I would consider from here to
1) Stop shaving with it, its dangerous
2) Consider 2 things, one that you probably are not honing with enough "discipline", make sure that you go slow and keep the blade really, really flat and at the exact same angle on the 4,000, and two that you may need a touch more pressure on the blade. First use no pressure and try and perfect your edge but if that fails use a little pressure to get the blade going and then let up on the pressure as you get closer to shaving perfection. Pressure is used when the blade is far away from an edge which is almost where your at, but pressure (a little) is also used to ensure your blade is really, really flat during the full movement down the hone.
3) With the 8,000 side of the Norton you have to be even more careful and controlled
4) If all else fails I take a cavalier attitude and use a light touch and just move the blade over the hone lightly and with a quick x pattern, let the blade fly over the hone. Fast, swiping motions with no pressure. I think this takes practice but sometimes works great and hones up really fast. In this method your using velocity of the blade to ensure a proper contact with the hone. Instead of discipline and focus your using speed. Don't go crazy, just use enough speed to ensure your able to keep the blade flat. Getting a perfect edge later though requires more "discipline' as it gets really close. I would recommend adding just a touch of lather to the hone too to help you keep it all flat, but this does slow down the process.
5) Your stropping sounds all wrong to me. I'm pretty open about stropping but I believe you should NEVER lift any side of the blade, edge, spine, left or right side of the razor. Keep it FLAT. Hold the strop taught and use enough pressure until you feel a draw. This is important for you because you can get a killer shave with an unperfect edge this way. Later if you build a really sharp edge; little to no pressure should work on the strop. But good contact, FLAT, is essential in the long run.

How long should it take?....depends on the pressure you use and your skill. Took me a year once to hone a stainless blade, honing every night. I used a dab of pressure (on my once 5/8 and now 4 1/2 /8) and it sharpened right up instantly. A year wasted using "just the weight of the blade". I'd say with a proper stroke and a knowledge of pressure (again NO pressure as the razor gets keen) I can hone a razor in about 10 minutes. That includes some aggressive stropping. It takes me about 30 min if I'm test shaving during all this too. Which is what I do towards the very end.

If you'd like I'll PM you my home number and we can chat about it for a while. Sometimes a phone intervention works better than all the posts in the world. Just PM me if you'd like some "direct" support. I'm available every evening this week.

Agree. Actually with a new one, it should not need more than a 3-3, 1-3, 1-3 or 1-5 on the Norton and then strop and shave. The key is the razor flat and no pressure both on the honing and stropping. Sometimes you get close and then just the 1-3, 1-5 will work. Good luck. Lynn

Thanks for the support and info guys. My honing technique may possibly be the root of my problem. I have been using no pressure at all on either side of the hone. I've just been moving slow and methodically ensuring the edge and spine were in complete contact throughout the stroke. The blade seemed so thin towards the edge that I was worried about using anything other than the weight of the blade for pressure.
I'll continue with the pyramid applying a little more pressure to the edge without going overboard and check for improvements after every sequence.
Thanks for the insight on that AFDavis11. I probably would have been honing for a year also with just the weight of the blade. Also per your instruction I will keep the blade FLAT on the strop from now on. The lifting of the spine was a one time thing just to experiment (thankfully). If I continue the pyramid with no improvement I'll definitely PM you and maybe we can sort it out. I appreciate the info and everyones willingness to help out. Thank you!

-Tony

After watching the Dovo and TI videos I have come to the conclusion that the bevel created at the factory may not be as good as we like it to be. So... use an aggressive pyramid with 1-2 lbs of pressure on the first 15 laps on the 4000 then lighten up for the remaining laps. This should help to establish a proper bevel and a good edge. You might also want to put some tape on the spine for the first 15 laps on the 4000 hone then remove it after that.

On my TI's it took a few pyramids to get it where I wanted it.
Creating the bevel is the key. If thats not perfect then nothing works.

Just my two cents,

Welcome to the club Wolf. You've been given some excellent advice here, now all you need is a little practice. Good luck!

X

I honed 6 new TI's this week and have done hundreds. I would never recommend 15 strokes on the 4K side of the Norton on a new one. Way too much!! I would never start out with more than 5 strokes. Normally 3. Less strokes are always better. Good Luck. Lynn

I agree too, especially a TI. They should be pretty sharp to begin with. I think the problem is that he has honed it poorly and created an edge which requires more than the typical work. I prefer fewer strokes whenever possible myself.