Thread: beginner honing difficulties

Ok, I think I'm getting to the point where I'm pretty much stumped.
I bought a Wade and Butcher that was advertised in shave-ready condition, and when it arrived it was anything but.
Rather than send it back to be re-honed, I'm taking this as an opportunity to learn how to hone myself.
I bought a Norton 4/8K combo stone and have been trying to learn everything that I can off the wiki and the videos.
The first go round was with pyramids, starting at 25/25 and going down to 1/7 - no results. Today watched one of the other videos on the wiki, and decided to just go to down on the 4K side and did 1000 laps or so, and the razor seems to me nearly as dull as ever, and absolutely will not cut arm hair. At this point my plan is just to keep working on my technique, and keep hitting the 4K side hard, and see if I can get anywhere with it before moving on to the 8 and CrOx. Any other suggestions?

Originally Posted by STS

Ok, I think I'm getting to the point where I'm pretty much stumped.
I bought a Wade and Butcher that was advertised in shave-ready condition, and when it arrived it was anything but.
Rather than send it back to be re-honed, I'm taking this as an opportunity to learn how to hone myself.
I bought a Norton 4/8K combo stone and have been trying to learn everything that I can off the wiki and the videos.
The first go round was with pyramids, starting at 25/25 and going down to 1/7 - no results. Today watched one of the other videos on the wiki, and decided to just go to down on the 4K side and did 1000 laps or so, and the razor seems to me nearly as dull as ever, and absolutely will not cut arm hair. At this point my plan is just to keep working on my technique, and keep hitting the 4K side hard, and see if I can get anywhere with it before moving on to the 8 and CrOx. Any other suggestions?

First, you have used a razor honed by someone here, right? It's always good to have a benchmark before even attempting.

Second, if the razor needs a bevel then you might want something lower than 4k (say in the 1k range) for that. Don't go any higher than that until it will shave arm hairs.

One of the best tips I got when I started was to use the marker test. Color the edge on both sides with a Sharpie (or whatever) and then do a few honing passes on each side with the razor flat, and see where contact is being made. Ideally it will remove the marker evenly but that seldom happens. Then you'll know where to focus the pressure/angles so that it comes out even.

All that said, I'm still learning this stuff myself and would defer to any of the true honemeisters for better advice.

Is it a large wedge by any chance ? Full hollow razors are generally a lot easier to learn with and some of those Sheffields have some tough steel. In general an inadequate bevel set can be the root of the problem. Do you have any magnification and did you set the bevel to the point where it passed a TNT and shaved arm hair before you started the pyramids ? You might be better off sending it out to a known honemeister and learning on full hollows.

Did you lap your stones?

Good advice given above and good questions to answer. The marker test is the first thing I would do. Modify your strokes if needed to clean the marker off the bevel in one stroke. If the blade smiles you may need to use a rolling x stroke. Smiling blades and wedges aren't the best to learn on. Moving down to a 1k hone is good advice to save time in you have the money for one but you can get there on a 4k. It will take a lot longer but is good practice for a newbie.

Here is another thread I replied to a while ago: http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...me-help-2.html

Good info in this thread also. My post is #12 and may help you get there a little quicker. If the 4k is you starting hone apply a bit more pressure until it passes the TNT and then repeat the circles on the 4k for one more round with lighter pressure to reduce the scratch pattern. If you are not familiar with the TNT search the WIKI on the menu bar above. Do answer the questions about the blade grind and if the blade smiles. It will require alterations to your technique.

Good luck

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Is it a large wedge by any chance ? Full hollow razors are generally a lot easier to learn with and some of those Sheffields have some tough steel. In general an inadequate bevel set can be the root of the problem. Do you have any magnification and did you set the bevel to the point where it passed a TNT and shaved arm hair before you started the pyramids ? You might be better off sending it out to a known honemeister and learning on full hollows.

+1 ... You are really jumping in at the deep end if this is a wedge. Even a full hollow can be a challenge. Was this an expensive razor & are you comfortable with the idea you may put some unnecessary hone wear on it ?

Thanks to all for the helpful advice. To answer a couple of the questions, I did lap the stones using sandpaper; I don't have any magnification at the moment but that is probably something I should look for;

I can't quite tell if it's a full wedge but it does seem to be, and it does seem to be smiling also, so will pay some attention to the rolling x stroke

It was a relatively inexpensive razor, so I'm comfortable with there being some unnecessary hone wear if hitting this really hard will help me improve my skills before trying to hone a more expensive one at some point down the line.

I think you're making your life unnecessary difficult, but it's really up to you. You'll have to learn to at least keep your razors sharp, but it's easier to learn crawling and walking before sprinting.

Its tough to learn, thats for sure!

I found a good little tip in the Wiki that helps with smiling blades. It is to do a 45 degree angle with the heel of the blade leading.

Have a read of this article and hopefully this will help you on your way!

Strokes for honing a razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

Good luck!

1000 passes on 4K? I'd apply tape and get to work, sounds like a geometry problem with the "spine". Do wedges have a spine?

I think you can shave with a spoon after 1000 passes on 4K.

I use a variation of the marker test. Do about 40 passes on 8K and see where the shine is. If its not fully along the bevel in pretty perfection, you'll be able to see where the problem is.