Thread: My Iwasaki Doesn't Like My Shapton

Originally Posted by ISaid

but I know that I have read here from a lot of old timers that different razors react differently to different techniques and some do not work well with certain hones. It was but the experience of others that I based my conclusions. But I do value your expertise above my limited knowledge.

Some qualifications on your statement, because I know for a fact that I have made this statement that "Certain razors(steel) works better on certain hones"

You have to understand, at least in my case, this does not have anything to do with sharpness, this only has to do with how smooth those razors feel on MY face...
I still stand by my contention that there is a distinction between Sharpness and Smoothness and most every stone out there (razor level grits) can get a razor sharp enough to shave, the only difference is how smooth that razor feels...

Now I might have my own ideas on what works best on what type of razor, but that might not hold up to what you think...

As to Shapton 16k stones IME that stone is one of the most universal finishers out there, but I personally, have NEVER, used more than 20 laps on ANY razor with that stone...
From what I read of your posts it seems that you are still trying to get more "sharpness" out of the razor at that level (I could be wrong) but all you should be doing is trying to erase the marks from the stone before it, S M O O T H is the key ... If the razor is not sharp enough by now, then something is not clicking much lower down the scale ... OR you took it to far at the 16k level

Sharp is sharp and smooth is smooth, try separating the two steps in your brain, it might help....

some comment on the DMT being a product of nature:
That´s... not the case.
Diamond, of course, occours in nature.
But Aluminiumoxide, the abrasive that shaptons (most certainly) contain, does as well.
So according to your logic, these may very well be "natural", too.

DMT are diamond particles embedded in a nickel alloyed steel plate.
Shaptons are aluminiumoxide bond in ceramic.
Those are both not even remotely a product of nature.

A natural stone like a coticule, or a japanese natural has grown in natural processes over hundreds, or even millions of years.
Those are mined. A diamond hone is not.

So Yamashi ta has spent some time with Iwasaki and his protege (Maruichi- san ?) in their workshop and he told me that the Kamisori are finished on a Shapton 30K. It may be that you just haven't found the right technique with that stone yet.

I know that Lynn is getting great results using other stones so there are many paths to getting a Kamisori shave ready. I think an Asagi (or comparable stone) is a great choice.

Well, I just spent the afternoon fixing up Hirohito's Revenge and the more I work on these things the more I alter my technique and experiment with different honing stratigies. I agree certain blades seem to do better with different hones but that doesn't mean you can't get a great edge with a quality hone and good technique.

In the past I've used diamond pasted bench strops with my iwasaki and it seemed to work really well but then my japanese natual Finisher worked great also. This afternoon I had to get some nicks out of the pass around razor so I started on the Norton 1K using back and forth strokes with pressure and when the nicks were just about gone I went to the Norton 4K starting with pressure and gradually using none and then went to the Norton 8K also back and forth with no pressure and finished using the Escher with back and forth no pressure and finally normal western style honing on the escher. Most of the strokes were on the shaving side of the razor especially the later ones especially once the nicks were gone.

Originally Posted by ISaid

When I first got my Iwasaki it gave me the perfect shave right out of the box, no stropping required; however, as some time passed it began to produce more and more unsatisfactory results. In the end it would pull the hair, and it was very uncomfortable (especially above my upper lip).

And there lies the crux of your problem . You should have touched it up at the first sign that it was not shaving the way it should . Once the razor got to the point to where it was pulling hair , and feeling very uncomfortable , it was dull beyond the point where a 16k (not to mention a 30k) hone would refresh the edge . That's why the lower grit DMT seemed to work better than your higher grit hones . Forgive me for being blunt , but IMHO you need to learn how , and when to hone , not more hones .

Originally Posted by Bill S

So Yamashi ta has spent some time with Iwasaki and his protege (Maruichi- san ?) in their workshop and he told me that the Kamisori are finished on a Shapton 30K. It may be that you just haven't found the right technique with that stone yet.

I know that Lynn is getting great results using other stones so there are many paths to getting a Kamisori shave ready. I think an Asagi (or comparable stone) is a great choice.

This has really got me thinking........well, maybe that's not a good thing, but the Shapton 30K is a great stone and I really have to be careful with regular razors not to over hone when using it. But considering the ratio for the Japanese razor, I can see the possibilities with using it on the Kamisori. I am definitely going to have to play more with this.

Thanks!

Thanks for the help. I do believe I went too far with the finer grits. I have taken it back down to lower levels several times, but it would seem from the responses that I undid my work with the Shaps. I just thought it was odd that I have never had this problem with any other razors and attributed it to the harder steel. This is one thing I love about straights though, there's always more to learn. With cartridges and electric you can just be stupid, there's no challenge. You learn something old every day. Applying what I learned today will probably result in a finer edge on my other razors too—that can't be too bad.

Originally Posted by Lynn

This has really got me thinking........well, maybe that's not a good thing, but the Shapton 30K is a great stone and I really have to be careful with regular razors not to over hone when using it. But considering the ratio for the Japanese razor, I can see the possibilities with using it on the Kamisori. I am definitely going to have to play more with this.

Thanks!

Yes. I've noticed that I go from "Almost Awesome" to "What happened to my edge?" in about 4 strokes with my Shapton 30. If the final finishing passes are done with a 30K at Iwasaki I wonder how many passes they use?

Lynn, do you use a back and forth stroke with the Kamisori razors? Maybe the back stroke (spine leading) reduces the risk of overhoning?

I need to start experimenting with my Iwasakis, but they're working so well now I'm hesitant to fool with them. I did use an SRD L.A. hanging felt with some diamond spray with one and that seemed to freshen up the edge nicely.