Thread: Micro Bevels or "How to get your edge bloody sharp off an 8k"

Originally Posted by PapaBull

The microbevel created by stropping, polishes this very tip of the razor's edge at a slighly more obtuse angle than the stone created. It burnishes off and smoothes out the micro-chips in the structure at the blades farthest edge.

That was a great illustration, thanks. One thing that for a long time bothered me was thinking that the razor's edge needed to be dead flat. I believe that the obtuse angle of the razor is important in the smoothness of the shave too. It alows the hair to be shaved off the face while not irritating the skin. Your last picture shows off an incredibly sharp edge that most likely sports a buttery smooth shave. I never use anything but real fine latigo after honing, even if is only 10 to 20 or laps, without doubt it is taking the hone work to the next level.
Also, no matter how important the last strokes of the hone or the leather are, the ones that came before it are even more important as most here already know.
Mike

Like Dylan eluded to, I'm curious about edge longevity of a double bevelled edge vs a single bevelled edge. I haven't really experimented with doubles enough to have an opinion one way or another.

We always hear about how great the shave is with a double bevel right off the hone, but how about weeks (or months for that matter) after the initial honing?

Originally Posted by Ryan82

Like Dylan eluded to, I'm curious about edge longevity of a double bevelled edge vs a single bevelled edge. I haven't really experimented with doubles enough to have an opinion one way or another.

We always hear about how great the shave is with a double bevel right off the hone, but how about weeks (or months for that matter) after the initial honing?

I can tell you from earlier work a couple of us found them going strong long after with 30k and also with diamond film. I personally think that any edge prepared that the beard offers little resistance will last longer because you are not forcing it, be it a micro or traditional. I am now trying the same idea with finishing on a super hard Asagi. It will be interesting to see if the natural edge is equally strong.

How long is "long after?" How does the same razor do with the alternate type of bevel? It's probably my science background, but I like to see "experiments" that are as controlled as possible, with the fixed values and results explicitly stated.

2 days ago, I passed 4 hours long on an honing job on my old razor without any success.
Yesterday, I re-do the entire honing process starting from a Noron 220 hone to a 1k, 4k and 8k.
I steped from 4k to 8k when my razor passed the arm hair test.
On the 8k, I've never been able to achieve the HHT until I tried this "Micro bevel" thing. I've gave it 20 laps with electrical tape on the bevel and then WOW! I got my razor sharp like it has never been before. That was the first time it passed the HHT out of the 8k.
I then finished it with my C12k stone and now, I can say my razor is really "Shave ready"!
I've been able to achieve that by reading post like this.
Thanks to everyone! :-)

obviously, I put the tape on the spine, not the bevel!!! :-D

That tells me that you never completely reset the bevel on your coarse stones before and were "finishing" the shoulders of the bevel instead of the actual edge. Microbevels aren't sharper. They're just a bit stronger and more durable.

Eventually with honing, pyramid processes and other methods, you'll get to a new bevel sooner or later. If you did it the hard way by spending a lot of time on finish hones before you actually had an edge to finish, whatever you did when you finally did get a new edge on the razor, which naturally results in a sharp edge, will seem like the silver bullet you've been looking for. If someone happens to drop cigar ashes on the hone the time they finally get a good edge, the chances are, they'll report that cigar ashes make the ideal slurry that works in ways nothing else has worked before.

The real silver bullet is setting a good, clean edge with a good clean bevel before frustrating yourself with finishing hones that don't seem to get your blade any sharper (because, of course, it's not getting sharper).

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

How long is "long after?" How does the same razor do with the alternate type of bevel? It's probably my science background, but I like to see "experiments" that are as controlled as possible, with the fixed values and results explicitly stated.

Your science background should serve you well, then. Microbevels actually last longer because the edge becomes less fragile and subject to chemical and mechanical deformation. If the microbevel is too large, however, it will reduce the potential "sharpness" because the farther up the bevel it goes, the more effort will be needed to shear and push the wider bevel through a cut. Microbevels should only be at the VERY, VERY tip cutting edge. More than that is coutner productive. That's why I don't recommend intentionally setting a microbevel on a hone. Good stropping will do it automatically and should be done before the razor is ever used to cut anything.

left = weak edge right = strong edge