Thread: Dissapearing Edge

Thanks for the reply Glen,

The razor is an old Crown. I had not shaved with it before I honed it, but it did need honing. I honed 5 razors that day, and this is the only one that this happened with, at least from that batch. I was test shaving with all of them and they performed very well. The Crown was exceptional that day. Which is why it surprised me so much two days later.

I know how to check for the wire edge, and there is none.

I have a microscope that I will look at the edge under tonight. It still feels sharp, but I know that the only true test is to shave with it.

I will go back to the 5k with light x strokes and up the lap count. I will start with 20 strokes.

Thanks again and I will let you know what I see under the scope.

David

Glen,
How do you check for a wire edge? I saw a video somewhere where the guy holds it under a light to see a very thin, reflective "wire" or whitish edge...is this correct? Any other videos or sources for this?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Your not doing anything wrong,


The razor, and the condition that the razor's edge started at, would play a huge part here...
That is something only you can determine..

I really thought you were overhoning too, when I first read the post this morning but unless you are using way way too much pressure on the high grits I don't see that now...Perhaps backing off the circles on the 5k depending on how the razor feels, drop out the circles, and up the lap count...

Also IMHO there is no such thing as "too sharp" There is "dull", there is "sharp", there is "shaving sharp" and there is "over honed"

Backhoning is not a solution BTW it is but a technique to pull off a wire edge, it does nothing to fix a mirco-chipped edge, both can result from overhoning...

You need some magnification to really check the edge a 30x or 40x loupe is more than enough...

What kind of razor??? and was it shaving before you put it on the stones?????

You know how to check for a wire edge right????


PS: the 30k Shapton 3-2-1 Technique has nothing to do with overhoning it is simply the most consistent way I have found to use that stone

Maybe you had a wire edge, or you stropping/cleaning routine dulled it.

You should pay attention to the last strokes when you shave, and determine if the razor deteriorates during the shave, or after, before the next one.
Looking under magnification can be quite telling what is happening.

I am sorry to ruin the parade of some of the posters who are certain they've already figured it out, but there are different things that can occur, and at this point we do not have enough information to differentiate among them. Even if somebody ends up being right about the problem, that's just a coincidence, not based on actual knowledge.

i've never experianced this before. What would i do? i'd probably lightly dull the edge with one stroke on a glass and start again at the 5k goto 8k and i like to test of my 8k and you should get a good shave there at some point. Then i would polish of with 12k and 10 laps on say .5 spray as lynn recomends. so realy just start again for me ,

Gentlemen,

With the help of my microscope, I have found that there never really was a shave ready edge to begin with. I think there were some areas of the edge that were shaveable, and those were corrupted by that first shave.

The edge was quite craggy under the microscope.

So following Glen's advice, I went back to the 5k, 8k, then 12k and doubled the laps. Inspected with my scope and the edge had improved greatly. I did one more full set as described above, and inspected again.
The edge was even and smooth, no cragginess.

Of course I'll have to wait till tomorrow for the shave for final inspection.

So I learned a valuable lesson. I can hone a razor where it is popping hairs, passes the TPT (or at least my TPT) and seems shaveable, and not really be shave ready. That is something I will be cognizant of while I continue to learn how to hone. Also, I need to use my microscope more. For heaven's sake, that's why I bought the thing.

Thank you for all of your help.

David

Great to hear you found the problem.
The scope is very useful tool.

Originally Posted by Alembic

Group,

This has happened to me a couple of times. I will hone a razor and the frist shave is just incredible - like a laser. I clean and oil the blade, come back a couple of days later and the razor pulls like it could use a touch up on the 12k.

Has anybody had this happen? Is it possible that I never really got them shave ready to begin with or maybe some how I trapped moisture on the edge and it degraded?

Thanks for any input.

David

How are you cleaning the razor?

Are you using a strop and if so what strop, pasted strops?

I would review my use of a strop if I had this situation.
It is almost as if you have an ultra fine edge that
is getting rolled. A paddle strop or news paper on scrap
lumber might be worth a try.

Since there are 50 posts in front of me one odd thing
to pay attention to is scale rot from one bad apple in
a box of razors. Ventilation and a dry place is a good thing
if that is related.

Is your body chemistry acidic? Most metals corrode very quickly in contact with my skin.

The reason I ask, is because I experience something very like your phenomenon with my own razors. I believe the edge is degrading in storage because of residual acids on the blade that are nearly impossible to get rid of. If I just hone the razor and oil it and put it away then the edge will be fine for a long time.

Several times now I've repeated an experiment where I took two similar razors (same make and model) and honed them to the same level of sharpness. Then I shave with both, one half of my face with each one. One of them is cleaned and oiled and put away, the other is used every day for the next week. Then I pull them both out, strop, and use them again to get a good comparison. Typically the razor I put away after one use is in comparable or worse shape than the one I was using and stropping every day.

What seems to minimize this degradation is to rinse the blade edge-up under the hot water for several minutes, then strop thoroughly on the linen side of the strop, then oil it well. And I tend to use the same razor day after day so it's always getting cleaned and stropped and I can keep an eye on it as it degrades.

Originally Posted by mparker762

Is your body chemistry acidic?
....snip...
What seems to minimize this degradation is to rinse the blade edge-up under the hot water for several minutes, then strop thoroughly on the linen side of the strop, then oil it well. And I tend to use the same razor day after day so it's always getting cleaned and stropped and I can keep an eye on it as it degrades.

How well dressed is the leather strop?

Some strop dressings contain tallow or neatsfoot oil and
either will minimize corrosion. Older razor texts had
folk running the edge along a tallow candle if the razor
was to be put up for very long.

A fast four or five stroke visit to canvas followed by leather
can clean then effectively oil the edge. It does nothing special
for the large bright shiny polished surfaces but it
does touch the sharp edge. This is one case for
stropping after shaving. Your shave tests will let you
know...