Thread: Dissapearing Edge

I spent time with Lynn learning to hone. I took these notes and am using this progression. I normally get very good results with it. I had not thought about overhoning the razor, but that is what makes the most sense right now.

BTW, I am using a SRD Premium IV strop.

Bevel Setting
Stone: 1,000 grit or similar
Sequence: 40 Heavy Pressure Circles – each side
10 Heavy Pressure X Strokes
Test: Repeat Sequence until Pocket Knife Sharp
Look for Thin, Even, Straight line along Edge – this is the bevel

Honing
Step: 1
Stone: 5,000 grit or similar
Sequence: 40 Heavy Pressure Circles – each side
40 Light Pressure Circles – each side
5 -10 Light Pressure X Strokes
Test: Repeat Sequence until Cuts Arm Hair Readily
Do Thumb Pad Test to Check Edge

Step: 2
Stone: 8,000 grit or similar
Sequence: 5 -10 Light Pressure X Strokes
Test: Repeat Sequence until edge passes Thumb Pad Test

Step: 3
Stone: 12,000 grit or similar
Sequence: 5 -10 Light Pressure X Strokes
Test: Repeat Sequence until edge passes Thumb Pad Test

Step: 4
Stone: Hard Felt with .5 micron Diamond Spray
Or Balsa Strop with .5 micron Cro-Ox
Or Fabric Strop with .5 micron Cro-Ox
Sequence: 10 Light Pressure X Strokes
Test: Repeat Sequence until edge passes Thumb Pad Test

Stropping
Strop: Your Choice
Sequence: 60-80 strokes
Test: Repeat Sequence until edge passes Thumb Pad Test
Honing Notes:

1. Heavy Pressure Circles and Heavy Pressure X Strokes means just that – the table shakes when Lynn does them.
2. Light Pressure X Strokes use just the weight of the blade and enough pressure to keep the blade flat.
3. During the Circle Strokes, keep the blade moving up and down the length of the stone
4. Keep the length of the stone perpendicular to your body.
5. Memorize what the Thumb Pad Test feels like for a Pocket Knife Sharp blade and following each successive sequence.
6. Lift your honing hand elbow to help keep the blade flat on the stone
7. Listen for unevenness in your strokes as the blade travels the stone
8. Watch the water pool carefully as the blade makes strokes on the stone. The pool should be even across the length of the blade and travel with the blade. Then you know you have even pressure and the blade is perfectly flat on the stone.
9. Lynn only uses tape on Damascus and Gold washed spines.

Your not doing anything wrong,


The razor, and the condition that the razor's edge started at, would play a huge part here...
That is something only you can determine..

I really thought you were overhoning too, when I first read the post this morning but unless you are using way way too much pressure on the high grits I don't see that now...Perhaps backing off the circles on the 5k depending on how the razor feels, drop out the circles, and up the lap count...

Also IMHO there is no such thing as "too sharp" There is "dull", there is "sharp", there is "shaving sharp" and there is "over honed"

Backhoning is not a solution BTW it is but a technique to pull off a wire edge, it does nothing to fix a mirco-chipped edge, both can result from overhoning...

You need some magnification to really check the edge a 30x or 40x loupe is more than enough...

What kind of razor??? and was it shaving before you put it on the stones?????

You know how to check for a wire edge right????


PS: the 30k Shapton 3-2-1 Technique has nothing to do with overhoning it is simply the most consistent way I have found to use that stone

I'm betting on stropping error here - one bad stroke can undo a lot of good work.

Thanks for the reply Glen,

The razor is an old Crown. I had not shaved with it before I honed it, but it did need honing. I honed 5 razors that day, and this is the only one that this happened with, at least from that batch. I was test shaving with all of them and they performed very well. The Crown was exceptional that day. Which is why it surprised me so much two days later.

I know how to check for the wire edge, and there is none.

I have a microscope that I will look at the edge under tonight. It still feels sharp, but I know that the only true test is to shave with it.

I will go back to the 5k with light x strokes and up the lap count. I will start with 20 strokes.

Thanks again and I will let you know what I see under the scope.

David

Perfect David, sometimes you just have to break it down one step at a time, to find out what is actually going on...
It is hard enough diagnosing problems when the razor is in hand, let alone 100's of miles away, but honestly I think we do pretty darn good here at SRP...

Glen,
How do you check for a wire edge? I saw a video somewhere where the guy holds it under a light to see a very thin, reflective "wire" or whitish edge...is this correct? Any other videos or sources for this?

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Your not doing anything wrong,


The razor, and the condition that the razor's edge started at, would play a huge part here...
That is something only you can determine..

I really thought you were overhoning too, when I first read the post this morning but unless you are using way way too much pressure on the high grits I don't see that now...Perhaps backing off the circles on the 5k depending on how the razor feels, drop out the circles, and up the lap count...

Also IMHO there is no such thing as "too sharp" There is "dull", there is "sharp", there is "shaving sharp" and there is "over honed"

Backhoning is not a solution BTW it is but a technique to pull off a wire edge, it does nothing to fix a mirco-chipped edge, both can result from overhoning...

You need some magnification to really check the edge a 30x or 40x loupe is more than enough...

What kind of razor??? and was it shaving before you put it on the stones?????

You know how to check for a wire edge right????


PS: the 30k Shapton 3-2-1 Technique has nothing to do with overhoning it is simply the most consistent way I have found to use that stone

I wouldn't think you would get even one good shave with a wire edge. When I had that problem when I started out the razor just seemed to skip over my face and did nothing. I imagine you just overhoned it ruining the edge.

Never,never,never use that terrible term too sharp. The last guy who used it got tar and feathered.

Would you say my dinner tasted too good or my car goes too fast or I make too much money?

David, regarding your post with the 40 heavy pressure circles and all of that. Don't rely on the numbers as if they are carved in stone. Do the initial bevel set as per your description and then lighten up on the pressure depending on the razor. Get in the habit of using the TPT. Learn the TPT really well. You do that by using it constantly.

If the razor is responding well on the TPT you can begin to use lighter pressure. Some razors need more metal removed to get to the bevel desired than others. I'm betting Lynn shook the table on that one you watched him do because that is what that particular razor needed. All I'm saying is that being more analytical in what the particular blade you're honing needs is a good way rather than just doing it by prescribed numbers and heavy pressure no matter what the grind and condition of the razor is.

Originally Posted by loueedacat

I'm betting on stropping error here - one bad stroke can undo a lot of good work.

That's possible. And I certainly have had that happen.

Back to the stones!

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

David, regarding your post with the 40 heavy pressure circles and all of that. Don't rely on the numbers as if they are carved in stone. Do the initial bevel set as per your description and then lighten up on the pressure depending on the razor. Get in the habit of using the TPT. Learn the TPT really well. You do that by using it constantly.

If the razor is responding well on the TPT you can begin to use lighter pressure. Some razors need more metal removed to get to the bevel desired than others. I'm betting Lynn shook the table on that one you watched him do because that is what that particular razor needed. All I'm saying is that being more analytical in what the particular blade you're honing needs is a good way rather than just doing it by prescribed numbers and heavy pressure no matter what the grind and condition of the razor is.

Jimmy,

Really good points. Right now because I am a honing newb I am probably relying on the formula more than the results that any particular part of the sequence is delivering.

Lynn made me TPT every razor he honed, which I think was 4 or 5 that day, and of course the 5 I honed to memorize the TPT for that particular sequence. He used the same sequence and the same heavy circles on all I think except one. That one he felt the bevel was in good enough conditon to move to light circles on the 5k.

I also, don't have enough experience to be analytical of the grind of the razor. Most of the razors I have honed are not very exotic or damaged. Again, I need more experience to judge what to do or where to go in the sequence. I do know enough to move back a hone when the TPT did not deliver what I expected. But I think I read that it takes honing 100's if not 1000's of razors to really become proficient at this.

Again, many thanks.
David