Thread: Weird results from the Marker test

Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm not sure how to reconcile the two halves of that sentence.

First, if the back of the blade is the one causing trouble, could you please provide a photo of that side of the blade? Spine wear might be informative. Second, could you clarify what you mean by the "slight curl of the toe?"

The two halves of that sentence mean pretty much exactly what I said... for some reason I have trouble creating a clean bevel swiftly (except for some blades, but that's the exception, not the rule)... However, once I have a bevel set and figure out what strokes work for what blade, my edges are always very nice when finished.

It would appear I misspoke when I said the back of the blade >.< My apologies... I meant the front. Those pictures are of the problematic side... I tried to show the edge and the spinewear as best as I could.

Slight curl at the toe... I mean like an extremely tiny hint of a smile... When you put it edge down on a lapped hone, you can see it. Otherwise it is imperceptible. Almost like an overly muted point

Also, I gave up on circles and went to a rolling X. It's working fine... I was just hoping there was some way to get this blade to work without a rolling X... It doesn't really matter that much, it's just me being anal.

For some reason, and I have no clue why... No matter what stroke I use, or how well it performs with marker and thumbnail tests, I just can't shave armhair off of the 1k without staying ON the 1k for hours and hours.

Baffling.

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

I was just hoping there was some way to get this blade to work without a rolling X... It doesn't really matter that much, it's just me being anal.

Just out of curiosity, why did you want to avoid a rolling X? What do you normally do to set bevels on razors that don't sit totally flat on hones as they are?

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

For some reason, and I have no clue why... No matter what stroke I use, or how well it performs with marker and thumbnail tests, I just can't shave armhair off of the 1k without staying ON the 1k for hours and hours.

Baffling.

If you cannot shave arm hair and that is what you are testing for with MMT and TNT, it sounds to me like you need to recalibrate or reapproach your tests. At any given stage, an edge which is positive in one test should be positive on all other tests designed for that stage. MMT won't actually tell you if you have your bevel set. Imagine, for example, a razor that is shave ready. If you were to take that edge and run it along something like a glass bottle, apply marker to both sides and do a few strokes on a hone, all the marker would come off. This is because the bevels run all the way to the edge. BUT, those bevels do not meet at a point - they end in a plateau. As such, the MMT is not a test for a bevel being set. The TNT, however, is. It could be that you are feeling for the wrong thing with TNT. OR, are you doing TNT followed directly by an armhair test? A TNT will actually dull your blade (which is the reason it should not be used after the bevel setting stage). When I used to TNT, I'd do the test, then do 10 strokes on my bevel setter, then continue.

With regards to how long it takes on a 1k - it's going to take what it's going to take; there is no way around that. If your razors are all that dull when you start setting your bevels, you must have some pretty bad luck (unless you like setting bevels, in which case your luck is awesome). It's just like getting new hones; some will take longer to lap than others because some are farther from flat than others; it's just the luck of the draw as to what you get.

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

Slight curl at the toe... I mean like an extremely tiny hint of a smile... When you put it edge down on a lapped hone, you can see it. Otherwise it is imperceptible. Almost like an overly muted point

may be this question of terminology but based on the description you have bent edge not a smile.
I am also curious about the rolling X, circles is nice and simple but if it does not work then that means something else needs to be used.

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Just out of curiosity, why did you want to avoid a rolling X? What do you normally do to set bevels on razors that don't sit totally flat on hones as they are?



If you cannot shave arm hair and that is what your MMT and TNT are testing for, it sounds to me like you need to recalibrate or reapproach your tests. At any given stage, an edge which is positive in one test should be positive on all other tests designed for that stage.

It's not that I wanted to avoid the rolling X, but I just wanted to get the circles to work, since they are easiest IMO, and the method I learned...

I don't move off of the 1k until it passes the TNT, and the arm hair test... Not sure what the MMT is. I wasn't saying that I give up on it... I was saying that it takes me a long time to pass it. My point was that it seems that the majority of people honing take about an hour, maybe two, to set a bevel, and that I take 4 hours to set a bevel... That bugs me. But I ALWAYS stay on my bevel setting stone until I pass all of the associated tests

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

It's not that I wanted to avoid the rolling X, but I just wanted to get the circles to work, since they are easiest IMO, and the method I learned...

I don't move off of the 1k until it passes the TNT, and the arm hair test... Not sure what the MMT is. I wasn't saying that I give up on it... I was saying that it takes me a long time to pass it. My point was that it seems that the majority of people honing take about an hour, maybe two, to set a bevel, and that I take 4 hours to set a bevel... That bugs me. But I ALWAYS stay on my bevel setting stone until I pass all of the associated tests

Why not do circles AND roll at the same time. It's what I do. I love it.

MMT in magic marker test, which you'd been referring to. I'm just being lazy in my typing.

My point about the tests is this:
-Imagine Test A and Test B, which both test for a set bevel.
-If you pass Test A, you should also be passing test B.
-If this is not the case, Test A and Test B do not test for the same thing
-OR One of the tests is being done incorrectly.

What I was trying to help you figure out is
-Do MMT and TNT both test for a set bevel - IMO they don't
-Are you doing TNT correctly - Perhaps not, I have no idea cause I can't feel what you are feeling. This is something you can check, though. Take a blade that has a set bevel (check with an arm hair test). Use that blade to do TNT. Remember that feeling.
-Is your TNT good but affecting your arm hair tests - Maybe - TNT will dull a blade.

For the other stuff you said about bevel setting time, check the edits to my previous post.

Alright, one last question before I weigh into this thing for the long haul.

I'll be blunt: I'm 18, so I don't have much arm hair to start with, what I started with was already fine hair, and I've been doing a LOT of honing lately, so I'm down to about as much armhair as a 13 year old girl. Not to mention that what's left is on the edges of my arm, so it's already finer than the minimal hair down the center.

However, my legs are mostly untouched (hello, awkward comments about my sexuality... I thought I had left you back in highschool.) Is shaving armhair versus leghair about the same thing as long as it SHAVES and doesn't PULL the hair out? Otherwise I will probably have to wait a few weeks before resuming honing >.>

Cheers,
Jeremy

I had a simular problem on a razor about three months ago. It was a nos razor and I couldn't figure why I was getting different spine wear and different bevel wear. Upon really lookingover the blade I came to notice that the grind was off. I mean that if you were holding the razor edge up and eyed down the razor from heal to toe, the heal edge would be 1/16" or more left of center of spine & the toe edge was 1/16" right of center of spine. I'll bet I spent at least 3 & maybe 4 hours on that razor. I used every trick I could think of including using the side of some stones. Talk about a total PITA. I've learned to never get hung up on one particular method.

Your armhair VS your leghair is something only you can figure out. Even with armhair, the test works differently for everyone because everyone's hair is different. You certainly can calibrate tests to your leghair in exactly the same way that you calibrated tests to your armhair.

Personally, I find there is variation from one part of my arm to the other, and even among different hairs on one spot on my arm (i.e. I have some really light blond hairs on my bicep, but there are also much thicker, darker hairs there. The darker hairs on my bicep react differently to the darker hairs on my forearm, and the light hairs on my forearm are different from all the other hairs too.)

Any test involving feeling or hair needs to be calibrated in order for it to work, and those calibrations must be individual calibrations. Cutting/shaving/popping are only general guidelines.

On conserving arm hair:
JoeD uses his head loupe and pops single arm hairs one at a time. He'll do one on one part of the blade, another on another part of the blade, and so on. I've taken to doing this too (though without the loupe) in order to conserve arm hairs.

Switching to a TPT can also help. I don't do an armhair test on every razor anymore. I might do it on the first one or two razors. I also TPT those razors once they pass the arm hair test (to help me re-calibrate and re-remember for the TPT) and then only TPT the rest of the razors I do in that honing session.