Thread: Weird results from the Marker test

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

I'll be blunt: I'm 18, so I don't have much arm hair to start with, what I started with was already fine hair, and I've been doing a LOT of honing lately, so I'm down to about as much armhair as a 13 year old girl. Not to mention that what's left is on the edges of my arm, so it's already finer than the minimal hair down the center.

If you can find a girlfriend with hairy arms grab her. Flowers and candy used to work well. I don't know nowadays.

Look at this picture see the heel ???? see the tiny "point" starting to form??? it will become a hook if you continue, you need to take that Dremel that you have been messing with, and grind the heel back into shape... The razor is pretty worn, and the geometry is all off now, it has to be brought back into line or even if you get the edge to pop by using every exotic stroke under the sun, the next time you hone it, you will have the same problem...

Some hints on honing,,

1 hour of trying to set the bevel at one time is too long, Stop!!! take a breath and figure out where the problem is...

Anytime you do 100 laps of any style on any stone and don't accomplish something good, Stop !!!! and figure out what your missing...

3-7 hours of bevel setting on one razor???? Stop !!! you're doing something wrong and wasting steel...take a breath and figure out what it is...

If one system is just not working Stop !!!! then change it up, add a layer of tape , subtract a layer of tape, switch stones, switch strokes, but change something, heck I remember one of the guys used to go strop the razor then go back to honing

The more razors you hone the more you are going to learn, BTW the first thing to learn is that there are no set rules in honing razors, if you stay in the same box, you can only hone the razors that fit in that box

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Look at this picture see the heel ???? see the tiny "point" starting to form??? it will become a hook if you continue, you need to take that Dremel that you have been messing with, and grind the heel back into shape... The razor is pretty worn, and the geometry is all off now, it has to be brought back into line or even if you get the edge to pop by using every exotic stroke under the sun, the next time you hone it, you will have the same problem...

Some hints on honing,,

1 hour of trying to set the bevel at one time is too long, Stop!!! take a breath and figure out where the problem is...

Anytime you do 100 laps of any style on any stone and don't accomplish something good, Stop !!!! and figure out what your missing...

3-7 hours of bevel setting on one razor???? Stop !!! you're doing something wrong and wasting steel...take a breath and figure out what it is...

If one system is just not working Stop !!!! then change it up, add a layer of tape , subtract a layer of tape, switch stones, switch strokes, but change something, heck I remember one of the guys used to go strop the razor then go back to honing

The more razors you hone the more you are going to learn, BTW the first thing to learn is that there are no set rules in honing razors, if you stay in the same box, you can only hone the razors that fit in that box

Glen, the point in there, to my knowledge, is just an illusion caused by the ink on the blade... That being said, I still took the dremel and rounded it off, just to nip any problems in the bud.

In other news, I win. The razor is now shave ready... I played with some different angles combined with a weird rolling X, and got /really/ good results... Also, interesting that you'd mention someone stropping in between hones... I tried -for shits and grins- stropping the razor on my palm in between attempts at the 1k, and it made -somehow... I may be imagining this for all I know- a big difference... 2 rounds of that and it was nearly popping armhairs. On to the 5k, again with palm stropping in between, and the arm hairs are popping like bacon on a griddle (damn, now I'm hungry), and so on.

Thanks, everyone in this thread, and the honing forum, I think I've figured out quite a few things with this razor and this thread.

Cheers and good night!

Jeremy

+1 with Glen.

Zombie, I dont know why you are so adversed to using tape, but I'd rather use tape and save time and steel then wear down a good razor over the course of several honing sessions. Just a thought for your consideration

Amen Brother Glen
The more you hone that razor the more the rear stabiliser will lift the heel off the stone.
Below is what a razor with a "healthy" belly looks like. Well away from the rear flange.
You need to create that kind of profile & in doing so you will slightly shorten that razor also. Just watch your pressure with whatever power tool you use. The stabiliser can take some weight, the blade won't

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

Glen, the point in there, to my knowledge, is just an illusion caused by the ink on the blade... That being said, I still took the dremel and rounded it off, just to nip any problems in the bud.

In other news, I win. The razor is now shave ready... I played with some different angles combined with a weird rolling X, and got /really/ good results... Also, interesting that you'd mention someone stropping in between hones... I tried -for shits and grins- stropping the razor on my palm in between attempts at the 1k, and it made -somehow... I may be imagining this for all I know- a big difference... 2 rounds of that and it was nearly popping armhairs. On to the 5k, again with palm stropping in between, and the arm hairs are popping like bacon on a griddle (damn, now I'm hungry), and so on.

Thanks, everyone in this thread, and the honing forum, I think I've figured out quite a few things with this razor and this thread.

Cheers and good night!

Jeremy

Sorry Jeremy, it looks like you got it all sorted out as I was typing my response. Glad it all worked out for you in the end. Different strokes and all that....

Ryan

Originally Posted by Ryan82

+1 with Glen.

Zombie, I dont know why you are so adversed to using tape, but I'd rather use tape and save time and steel then wear down a good razor over the course of several honing sessions. Just a thought for your consideration

I know that these ramifications would probably never hit in my lifetime, but, God forbid I have a son, I want the razor to have no real complications over it's lifetime... The longer you hone with tape, the stouter the bevel will get, until you need to regrind the edge, or hone from scratch without tape... In my mind it could get to the point where you have to strop taped...

Ask anyone who's done any blade or scale work for me... I'm a compulsive worrier >.<

And I'm not really losing that much metal... I keep all my strokes very light and low on pressure until I can find what works...

All that being said, I'm getting better, fairly quickly.

Fingers crossed, eh?

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

I know that these ramifications would probably never hit in my lifetime, but, God forbid I have a son, I want the razor to have no real complications over it's lifetime... The longer you hone with tape, the stouter the bevel will get, until you need to regrind the edge, or hone from scratch without tape... In my mind it could get to the point where you have to strop taped...

Regardless of whether you use tape or not, your bevel will get "stouter" - that's exactly what hone wear is. If you don't believe me, well, just look at your razor. If you want to compare how much tape affects bevel width, take two identical razors, tape one, and hone the heck out of both. I'd be curious to see the after pictures.

There are a lot of posts about how little tape affects the bevel angle. I also put up a poll thread about whether or not members have ever "worn down" razors from normal use - meaning maintenance after the razor was already shave ready. Maybe 5 said yes. Put those to together - it doesn't really matter if you tape or not, unless you are an excessive honer. I can't provide numbers cause I've never done it, but I'd bet it would take at least a few hundred touchups removes the same amount of metal as 1 bevel setting. If you use the same razor daily, you'd touch up... what? every other week at most? That's maybe 10 to 30 years of daily shaving and regular touchups equating to the removal of maybe 1/32 of blade width.

All those old blades with massive hone wear - I DO NOT buy it that that was put on by people who knew what they were doing who just did touchups to a regularly used razor. Sure, a barber might put excessive wear onto a razor, because he has to be 100% sure every shave he gives will be extremely comfortable for his customers or else he'll lose his customers. For the rest, I'd bet it was people who just didn't know what they were doing; it happens today so why not back then.

In short, I think you are worried about nothing. Tape or no tape, I'll bet you $10 that even in 10 years you'll never notice the difference.

Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

And I'm not really losing that much metal... I keep all my strokes very light and low on pressure until I can find what works...

I suppose "that much" is relative, cause to me it looks like you took a heck of a lot of metal off that razor (unless the bevels and spine wear were that big when you started). Regardless... it doesn't matter mot light or low pressure your strokes are, if you spend hours on a bevel setter, you are removing a lot of metal.

i always tape hone my practice razors just to keep bevel thin other wise the bevel becomes big i hate that, i prefer a nice thin bevel. always set bevel with tape then remove and carry on as normal with no tape. thats how i do it.

if i was honing that razor i would of tryed a thin hone or gone straight to roll .

Although it's more time consuming I've been an advocate of reverse honing for a few years.

Apply a shaving edge first, then back into a good bevel with every failure.

Spending hours trying to develop a good bevel, and hoping you know it when you see it, takes away most of the razor's geometry that could have created a good bevel in the first place.

Using a 1K stone, although effective, is also like sculpting wood with a flame thrower.