Thread: full hollow TI giving me trouble

I'm afraid to do any honing, where I move the blade off the stone. I use a heel leading stroke down the length of the hone. How else can I deal with the 'smile'?

E

Just random thoughts OK? After all if its broke don't sweat trying to fix it.

I'd say the thing missing is your hone trueness. When was the last time you trued the hones? This is assuming your using equal pressure on both sides of the blade . . . is that true for every stroke you've made? At some point, probably around 15K the very edge is getting misaligned and the strop is realigning it, IMO. An inaccurate turn, an untrued hone, or perhaps a slight variance in your technique running in only one direction from the other.

After you diagnose those possibilities, I'd add more 15K passes at the end of whatever cycle your using now. Like double the number of strokes.

Just between you and me I would also consider back honing on the 15K very, very lightly to realign the blade edge and see if it passes the hanging hair test. Don't tell anyone else I said that though, they'll all freak out! OK, our little secret. Psssssst, mums the word ok?

If its still not passing the HHT its probably just in need of Mr. 4K again from the start.

And if I get a bunch of hate mail PMs about backhoning I'll know who spilled the beans . . . got it!

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'd say the thing missing is your hone trueness. When was the last time you trued the hones?

I think that was part of the problem, my 8K wasn't flat enough. My first test of hone trueness was placing it on a glass plate, when wet, and seeing that the whole stone 'stuck' to the glass. This isn't the best test of trueness, though since the stone can look like it's stuck to the glass when there is a lot of excess water on the stone, even if the stone is quite warped. I drew lines on my Norton 8K with a pencil and sanded the stone on glass until the lines were gone. After that, I could get the razor to pass the HHT off the hones.

Even though my razors pass the HHT of the hones, they do much better with this test after stropping. I assume this is normal?

E

Well, I've tried everything at least twice. I simply can't get this one to hone well. I thought it might be the fact that it's a full-hollow. In an effort to convince myself that it's not my technique, I bought full-hollow 5/8 at the antique store and honed it up in about 20 minutes. It's nice and sharp. To be fair, it only needed a touch up with about 10 passes on the 8k norton and a few passes on the 15k shapton.

I notice that this razor that won't hone well feels like it's sliding on glass when I use the 4k norton. Unless I work up a slurry with some sandpaper, I can't feel any drag at all on the blade. It makes me think that I'm not removing any metal, and not honing. When I work up a slurry, it drags a little and I can see some metal left behind on the hone. I'm guessing this steel is just super hard. It is supposed to be a carbon steel blade. No matter though, this thing has essentially defeated me! I even went down to 1000 grit norton and worked my way back up. Still, can't get this one sharp for some reason.

Any other advice? I'm getting desperate!

Thanks,
E

Originally Posted by ericm

Well, I've tried everything at least twice. I simply can't get this one to hone well. I thought it might be the fact that it's a full-hollow. In an effort to convince myself that it's not my technique, I bought full-hollow 5/8 at the antique store and honed it up in about 20 minutes. It's nice and sharp. To be fair, it only needed a touch up with about 10 passes on the 8k norton and a few passes on the 15k shapton.

I notice that this razor that won't hone well feels like it's sliding on glass when I use the 4k norton. Unless I work up a slurry with some sandpaper, I can't feel any drag at all on the blade. It makes me think that I'm not removing any metal, and not honing. When I work up a slurry, it drags a little and I can see some metal left behind on the hone. I'm guessing this steel is just super hard. It is supposed to be a carbon steel blade. No matter though, this thing has essentially defeated me! I even went down to 1000 grit norton and worked my way back up. Still, can't get this one sharp for some reason.

Any other advice? I'm getting desperate!

Thanks,
E

PM Lynn for his address!

RT

I'm having trouble understanding at this point. You don't think the bevel is hitting the hone at 4k?

I don't own a TI in full hollow but I can imagine with that extra hard carbon steel on a full hollow grind it be a bear to hone.

I recommend a quick backhone of 8k and then lots of 8k passes with a light touch. Check to make sure the bevel looks right. Do you have any pastes?

If that fails a dab of pressure followed by none again might be in order. I think the complexity of full hollow razors becomes exponentially difficult to hone the wider the blade gets. I have a 6/8 full hollow that gives me fits too.

After all that I'd send it out too.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I'm having trouble understanding at this point. You don't think the bevel is hitting the hone at 4k?

It looks like it does, and if I'm dulling up an 8k shine on the 4k, it appears to be uniform.

Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I recommend a quick backhone of 8k and then lots of 8k passes with a light touch. Check to make sure the bevel looks right. Do you have any pastes?

If that fails a dab of pressure followed by none again might be in order. I think the complexity of full hollow razors becomes exponentially difficult to hone the wider the blade gets. I have a 6/8 full hollow that gives me fits too.

After all that I'd send it out too.

I'll try it and let you know what happens.

Thanks!
E

Originally Posted by ericm

I'm afraid to do any honing, where I move the blade off the stone. I use a heel leading stroke down the length of the hone. How else can I deal with the 'smile'?

That's just how I do it. As you begin each stroke, make sure the heel and not the tip is in good contact with the hone and as you progress along the stone, gradually move that point of contact through the belly of the edge toward the tip for the finish of the stroke.

Even pressure all the way and the same in both directions. I found that since your wrist should remain in exactly the same position for both directions, a lot of the difference for me lay in the position of my thumb and forefinger initially. I learned I was underhoning on the left to right pass. I'm now careful to place my thumb on the edge side of the shank on top and the forefinger on the spine side of the shank underneath. This creates a very mild torque which keeps the blade on the hone the same in both directions without even trying.

X

Good advice guys. I'll give it a shot!
E

If the advice you have just been given does not work then come back and let us know if the razor is new? size? stainless steel?
lead hardened? pic's?
My guess is that your razor needs more time on the 4000 to form the bevel. Once the bevel is created then the rest goes quickly. You probably are not using enough pressure on the 4000 initially. I use 1-2 lbs until the bevel is formed then lighten up to using just enough pressure to keep the razor on the hone.

Hope this helps,