Thread: Honing at the 1k level

Originally Posted by thorxes

I am stopping. This is exactly what my post is stating. I'd just like a separate way of testing the razor while I let my skin heal and NOT torture myself. I figured giving my neck a few days would be optimal, so I wanted to do something in the meantime.

That's why this is the question I asked:

What Glen is saying, and I agree, is that if your face is raw from shaving you don't have your technique down enough to evaluate a good edge, even when you face is back to 'normal'. Get your razor professionally honed and learn to shave with the straight razor so your face is not raw after the shaves. Do this for s few months before even attempting to learn to hone. If your anxious to learn to hone get an other razor to practice on and just shave your sideburns or cheeks to test the edge until you are satisfied with the results. If you do not know how to shave without nicks, cuts and razor burn you will never be able to gauge a good edge from a not so good edge.

You can either be patient or chase your tail trying to hone a good edge w/o knowing where the problem is, your shaving technique or your honing technique.

Originally Posted by Joed

Get your razor professionally honed and learn to shave with the straight razor so your face is not raw after the shaves. Do this for s few months before even attempting to learn to hone. If you do not know how to shave without nicks, cuts and razor burn you will never be able to gauge a good edge from a not so good edge.

I did have the razor sent out to be honed.

I was able to shave quite easily without nicks or cuts. The main problem I was having was razor burn on the neck area, which I've been trying to deal with in a couple other ways (Cold water shaving, olive oil, more intesnse pre-shave prep). The main problem was literally about 10 hairs that just would not shave off on/around my Adam's apple. The weird angle they grew at didn't help either.


Anyways, after about a week of this and some marginal progress the razor started to tug and pull. This is where hitting up a hone came up since a razor shave shouldn't tug or pull.

I can take the razor to a hone right now, I just don't want to test shave with it and was wondering if I dunno...maybe shaving leg hair instead of arm hair would be comparably tough enough to facial hair as a "apples to apples" comparison.

I normally can feel by using the TPT (Thumb Pad Test) when the razor is ready on the 1K. When it is sticky sharp like a pocket knife, it is there. This feeling is very distinct, but you do need to know what you are looking for. When it's there, I can usually follow the rest of my process and the razor will be just where I need it for a comfortable shave.

The shave test is not meant to be painful and there is no reason to destroy your face testing a razor. If it pulls at all when you try to shave one spot, you need to take it back to the hones. If it pulls a lot, I usually go back to the 4K. If just a little, maybe the 8K or 12K. Again, there is no need to continue shaving with a razor that pulls. If the razor just glides over the whisker and does not remove anything, it usually is a sign of over honing and then a trip back to the 12K is normally a good place to start.

As stated previously, there is a learning curve and if you're patient, it will be there for you sooner vs. later.

Have fun,

Lynn

Originally Posted by tmac123

I've been reading through the Wiki and have found various "benchmarks" for moving past the 1k stone and wanted to get some clarification.

Are you done with the 1k once:
a) the razor shaves arm hair easily when actually touching the skin.
b) The razor "pops" hair when the razor is just above the skin.
c) The razor pass TNT.

I assume if B is true, then A and C also will be. So do you need to get to B before moving on, or is A sufficient to move onto the 4k? (Again, with the mindset that if A is true, C would also be true)

Or are there any other benchmarks I should keep an eye out for?

The quest for a sharp smooth edge has come a long way since I started reading and posting here on SRP and the quest is never ending. To start wit, the TNT is used to gauge the first level of sharp and there are miles to go when that test is satisfied. I found that the difference between sharp and extra sharp is a minuscule distance that can take anywhere from one lap to a bunch. My scene of feel is not sensitive enough to notice the different levels of sharpness past a certain point using the TPT. For that reason I do not use it to gauge the finished results on the 1k hone. I don't have enough arm hair to test the cut above the skin or to do a lot of at skin level testing so I go after one arm hair at a time. With this test I can notice and gauge numerous levels of sharp. Does it take several tries to cut a hair, does it make any noise, does it send the hair flying? I know I reached the best the 1k can do when the hair cuts w/o a sound and just falls dead on the spot, no popping or/or flying away. In fact, if the hair just falls over when trying to line up the test I know I'm there for sure. The rest of the hones are used to reduce the scratch pattern hence smoothing out the shave. If you move to the next hone before you get to this point the next hone will require even more laps to get there and if you moved to that hone too soon the odds are that you will not have the patients to get there on the finer hones. While the normal hone progression is to double the grit rating for the next hone the nunber of laps is not in that same ratio. One extra lap on a 1k hone does not equal 2 laps on a 4k and so on. Also remember that the edge may not come to the same level of sharpness over it's entire length at the same time. This is where you need to be aware of where the edge is and not produce a wire edge in the areas that come to sharp first and not leave some areas lacking.

Do note that the majority of razors I hone are vintage and come from anywhere on earth except directly from the factory.

Patients is the name of the game here as well as minimal pressure when finishing up on a hone or getting the blade ready for a test.

Good luck

Originally Posted by Joed

Does it take several tries to cut a hair, does it make any noise, does it send the hair flying? I know I reached the best the 1k can do when the hair cuts w/o a sound and just falls dead on the spot, no popping or/or flying away. In fact, if the hair just falls over when trying to line up the test I know I'm there for sure.

Originally Posted by Joed

The rest of the hones are used to reduce the scratch pattern hence smoothing out the shave. If you move to the next hone before you get to this point the next hone will require even more laps to get there and if you moved to that hone too soon the odds are that you will not have the patients to get there on the finer hones.
Good luck

Amazing and Amazing.

This is exactly the level of detail that I was looking for. And something I think a lot of people can use as a guide.

Thanks so much Joed. Now I just have to make sure my hand is steady and smooth when lapping.

When I was honing my grandfathers blade before it broke on me, I kept feeling myself over adjusting in order to keep the spine and edge in full contact with the stone. Especially towards the end of the X stroke.

It seems like focusing and going slower around this point is the key?

Two things.

First, this should probably be in the honing section, or at least a reference to it so people looking for good advice there will find it here.

Second, does anyone use a marker test at the 1k bevel-setting level? I forget where I read about the marker test, but it's something about using a black marker or pen to put a line of ink on each side of the blade and then setting the bevel until . . . the ink is honed away? . . . the pen line is even? I have no idea.

Thanks.

I don't have anything to add, except to say +1 to what JoeD and Lynn have said. Those two gents have loads of know-how, and I've learned a lot from both.

Originally Posted by JeffE

Two things.

First, this should probably be in the honing section, or at least a reference to it so people looking for good advice there will find it here.

Second, does anyone use a marker test at the 1k bevel-setting level? I forget where I read about the marker test, but it's something about using a black marker or pen to put a line of ink on each side of the blade and then setting the bevel until . . . the ink is honed away? . . . the pen line is even? I have no idea.

Thanks.

From what I've read and been told you do like you said with the marker.

Then you take it for a few laps on the 1k.

You should then see the bevel forming. Ideally you should see the bevel forming across the entire edge.

But if say only the middle part of the edge is shiny, and the heel and toe are still covered in marker, you're obviously not hitting those area's.

Then I THINK, you use this information to adjust your stroke. So in the above situation you'd use the Rolling X stroke.

And if say only the heel was still showing magic marker, then you'd use a heel leading X stroke.

Can someone confirm? This is just what I've pieced together from reading the Wiki and other posts about it.

I use the marker test on every razor I hone for several reasons. The razors come from who knows where, I've honed a couple of warped razors and didn't know it until the uneven hone wear was highly evident, if I don't want to remove too much metal I try and match the previous bevel as long as it is not a frown. The main reason is to catch a warped blade before honing for the gold. When I forst started honing I came across several warped blades and removed more metal than needed before I noticed. WIth the marker test I know within 10 laps.

Some razors were honed heavy on the tow or heal. Some with a smile. By marking the bevel I can get my strokes to match what was on the blade before I get serious about metal removal.

I use a sharpie because it is water proof. Mark up the bevel and take ~ 10 laps. Check the marked bevel. If the marker is removed for the entire length of the bevel you good to get into heavy metal removal. If just the tow and heel on one side and just the middle of the other sidde has marker removed you have a warped blade and need to use a narrow hone, the side of the hone or just tip the toe up slightly and use the edge of the hone, lightly, until the center of the blade is off the hone, them lay the blade flat. If just the toe and or the heal has marker on it adjust your stroke by rolling x or heal leading and rock the blade slightly during the stroke. The goal is to one the edge evenly w/o over honing the toe or heal and not honing out a warp.

I had a follow up question that still relates to the 1k honing; and since this thread already seems to have a ton of good info, why not add more?

So I bought this semi-new Dovo. I had no idea whether tape was used to previously hone it, so I figured I'd take it back to the 1k and reset the bevel with tape. I also figured I'd do the magic marker test to figure out what stroke to use.

2 things came up.

1- The toe and heel still had marker on them after about 10 strokes, and even after 20 strokes. So I switched to a Rolling X Stroke with the heel leading a bit. (I Think this is what you're supposed to do in that situation.)

However, after a while, the toe and heel still weren't getting honed. Could something be wrong with the blade that I need to fix, or is it most likely just operator error?

2- I noticed that the bevel I was setting laid perfectly on top of the previous bevel; and it looked to be steeper (which means the previous honing was done without tape?) with the center of the blade. But on the sides, the bevel I was putting in was only half of the previous bevel. Fortunately it was on the half with the edge.

So my question is, should I stick with the 1k until the bevel on the sides overlays the previous bevel, or is it ok to have this "double" bevel thing going on at the ends of the blade?

3* - I was also thinking that maybe if I was able to fix (1), (2) would fix itself.

I dunno, but I figured I'd let the experts offer their advice since they've done such an amazing job so far.