Thread: The light strokes..

"That pic is around 25x - 45x. NO where near 200x" :-D Must be metric magnification.. I wonder what the conversion is.

"Is there any chance that you are pressing harder than you think you are when you hone? A hollow ground blade will flex under pressure, so where you are abrading will move on the edge, depending on the pressure."

I was thinking about that, I can see where one might put so much pressure on the edge that it bends and the abrasive action takes place behind the very edge, but I *think* this is not happening here. It seems like I'd have to use more pressure when honing than I used setting the bevel for that to occur, whereas if I used excessive pressure on the bevel and then a more reasonable pressure on the honing I'd end up with a double bevel.

Here's another pic- I seem to have gotten a fairly decent polish, although I can see I need to spend more time on my pre polish. That darn bright line right down the edge drives me nuts. Color is funny because I caught a reflection of my finger to try to help bring out the bevel. After stropping, I notice that I see much less of that line down the edge, but I also see that my strop must have some sort of coarse grit on it because my polish is worse D-:

Again, thanks for all the assistance.

n

can you show full picture of the blade. Are you using tape ?

The second photo helps me to understand. I do agree that is not 200X magnification.

Your bevel is not fully set. I know this to be the case because you have scratches that are continuous from the bevel, over the shoulder of the bevel, and into the belly of the blade. You have not honed enough yet to create a crisp shoulder on the bevel nor have have you honed enough for the bevel to reach all the way to the edge. Spend more time on the 1k.

Does "That darn bright line right down the edge" show up on both sides? Maybe a clue to what is happening. It appears that some metal is "sharper/less thick" then the main edge you have on the blade. That's what appears as the "bright line right down the edge." Is is possible you are very slightly rounding the edge, thus changing the edge angle at the end? In any event, I agree with Utopian that the edge is not down to the end of the blade for whatever reason. Again, the magnification is in the 25x to 45x depending on the width of the edge.

There are some tricks that can help untangle what you are seeing.
Some of the tricks are not ideal for honing but do let you see
what is going on.

The first trick is to change the angle of the honing strokes.
You want the scratches to cross the scratches from the
previous hone. Shortly after switching hones you will see
see a cross pattern develop that will vanish as you get down and
remove the previous hone scratches.

Another trick is to modify the hone stroke and not always flip the blade.
i.e. run the razor back and forth ten to 15 times then flip the
blade and the same number of modified strokes. Then
do a count down followed by ten standard strokes.

Another trick is circles. Use the circles on the ends of the hone
to even wear on the hone. Circles do not have the same systematic
scratch pattern and can let you feel and see when the previous grit scratches
are replaced.

Circles and the back/forth strokes have an advantage in they are done
with one grip of the razor and can thus be more consistent, and numerous.
They also tend to minimize the development of a burr even remove a burr.

Strictly the previous scratches only need to be reduced only to the point that
what is left are no deeper than scratches from the current hone.

One cause of a brightening of the edge can be slurry. Grains of grit in
a slurry rolling on the surface will impact the edge and in some cases
result in what might be a micro bevel (sometimes a very good thing).

Another trick is to strop the edge 10 canvas & ten leather... This will
change the shape of a burr.

Lastly work to make a burr so you can see what one looks like.
Try ten to twenty honing strokes all on one side....

Tom, Thanks so much for the information. I will print it out and save if for future reference. I also think it is a good idea to get an inexpensive but shaveable razor to learn to hone one's honing skills.

Originally Posted by niftyshaving

There are some tricks that can help untangle what you are seeing.
Some of the tricks are not ideal for honing but do let you see
what is going on.

The first trick is to change the angle of the honing strokes.
You want the scratches to cross the scratches from the
previous hone. Shortly after switching hones you will see
see a cross pattern develop that will vanish as you get down and
remove the previous hone scratches.

Another trick is to modify the hone stroke and not always flip the blade.
i.e. run the razor back and forth ten to 15 times then flip the
blade and the same number of modified strokes. Then
do a count down followed by ten standard strokes.

Another trick is circles. Use the circles on the ends of the hone
to even wear on the hone. Circles do not have the same systematic
scratch pattern and can let you feel and see when the previous grit scratches
are replaced.

Circles and the back/forth strokes have an advantage in they are done
with one grip of the razor and can thus be more consistent, and numerous.
They also tend to minimize the development of a burr even remove a burr.

Strictly the previous scratches only need to be reduced only to the point that
what is left are no deeper than scratches from the current hone.

One cause of a brightening of the edge can be slurry. Grains of grit in
a slurry rolling on the surface will impact the edge and in some cases
result in what might be a micro bevel (sometimes a very good thing).

Another trick is to strop the edge 10 canvas & ten leather... This will
change the shape of a burr.

Lastly work to make a burr so you can see what one looks like.
Try ten to twenty honing strokes all on one side....

This is one of the more interesting posts I have read in regard to honing. I must agree with, mostly, what you have stated, although I believe what you have said needs to be directed to more experienced honers.

Consider this some what of a compliment,......mostly! (LOL)

Steve

Magic marker. Rocks. Thumb. Water. Occasional paper towel. I can't imagine that a 19th century barber spent too much time peering into a microscope. Heck, he didn't have the magic marker and paper towels.

I know, I'm just a crabby old man, but it might be time to put the microscope away for a while.

You don't necessarily have to buy junk razors for honing practice, just a couple that you won't feel too bad about if the bevel starts creeping around on you.

Originally Posted by stimpy52

Magic marker. Rocks. Thumb. Water. Occasional paper towel. I can't imagine that a 19th century barber spent too much time peering into a microscope. Heck, he didn't have the magic marker and paper towels.

I know, I'm just a crabby old man, but it might be time to put the microscope away for a while.

You don't necessarily have to buy junk razors for honing practice, just a couple that you won't feel too bad about if the bevel starts creeping around on you.

I can't disagree with you but keep in mind 60 years ago every barber knew how to shave customers with a str8 and could and would teach others how to do it. When your learning essentially by yourself with the help of great places like this site, a microscope can help keep you on track. BTW, I would pay to take a class on razor honing and restoration.

Originally Posted by frank47

I can't disagree with you but keep in mind 60 years ago every barber knew how to shave customers with a str8 and could and would teach others how to do it. When your learning essentially by yourself with the help of great places like this site, a microscope can help keep you on track. BTW, I would pay to take a class on razor honing and restoration.

I probably shouldn't post when I'm tired and cranky, things just don't come out right, and sometimes I end up raising someone's hackles. My apologies.

On a brighter note -- you're about 4 and 1/2 hours from Williamson, NY, about 4 hours from Rochester, NY -- There are guys here that could put you on the right track. Not me, you understand, I'm an amateur, but I could put you in touch with some other members who always seem willing to give real-world, hands-on help. Think about it. It's really fun to meet and learn.