Thread: Is the temper gone?

I got a razor that had been through alot in its life for a practice piece. What seems like an "older restoration" by someone. There is no maker mark on it from what I assume was rust removal. I've honed away, which is part of my practice, and I have about 1/2 inch towards the end that seems to want to get sharp but not like the rest on both sides of it. I am wondering if the temper is gone in that section. Is there a scratch test or something that I can do to see if the temper is my problem?

Thanks

Tim

AFAIK if the blade hasn't got heat discoloration it should be alright. Just a matter of honing it until it is sharp. Have you done a marker test to see if the blade is making contact for the full length with the stroke you're using ? You take a magic marker and blacken the edge. Let it dry a minute and then do a few strokes. If it is all wiped away along the bevel you're alright. If not you need to adjust your stroke. In the SRP Wiki help files here there is a PDF of a barber's manual excerpt on honing and stropping that might be helpful.

Thanks for the reply,

I did the marker thing as you recomended and that cleaned up fine in the area of problem. I attached a couple of pictures with marks on each side of the dull area. I will be the first to admit that I am not yet a honemeister. There is no blue discoloration on the blade but there are heavy scratch marks on the tang etc. where someone has sanded or ground on it. That is what got me thinking maybe the temper is the problem. There are no makers markings which I think have been sanded away. I have seen mentioned poor quality blades that don't hold an edge. Does that happen on the whole edge or could it be differences along the length?

I am not trying to say I am perfect and blame the razor. I welcome any thoughts about how I could improve.

Thanks

Tim

The discoloration is only on the surface; if it is removed, no one can tell you how hard it is just by looking at it.

I had a razor, that I thought that it might have lost it´s temper. I tested it by scratching the blades of other cheap razors, from which I knew, that they are properly tempered. Simple thing: If it is harder, you should be able to scratch the other blade, if not, it´s softer. This doesn´t mean that it is too soft, but this may help guessing whether a blade is hard enough or not. It helps even more, of course, if you have an idea of how hard the steel is, you test your razor on.

Unfortunately, when testing on razors, you have to test on the blade. when testing on the tang, you cannot be sure, whether this part is hardened, too, because sometimes, it is not. Thus, testing your razor will ruin your edge.

Regards,
tok

Can't tell from the photos. Maybe the best thing to do is put that one aside until you have more experience honing with other blades in better condition. In the shape it's in I wouldn't think it would be worth it to send it out for pro honing.

Thanks for the good yet simple idea. I didn't have to go out and buy a diamond, ruby, or anything exotic!

I took another blade that had a big chunk out of it and ran it along the one in question. No scratches and/or change in the area in question.

I agree that this blade is not of the quality to send to someone else but then that is my idea in practicing on it. I have a couple I won't touch until I feel more comfortable. I bought a Henckels after work today that is pretty clean and would be a good candidate to send to someone else for honing. But I would have a hard time spending twice as much for honing as I paid for it originally. That said, I understand the thought of getting a "good" one to compare to.

Thanks again

Tim

Originally Posted by 32t

Thanks for the reply,

I did the marker thing as you recomended and that cleaned up fine in the area of problem. I attached a couple of pictures with marks on each side of the dull area. I will be the first to admit that I am not yet a honemeister. There is no blue discoloration on the blade but there are heavy scratch marks on the tang etc. where someone has sanded or ground on it. That is what got me thinking maybe the temper is the problem. There are no makers markings which I think have been sanded away. I have seen mentioned poor quality blades that don't hold an edge. Does that happen on the whole edge or could it be differences along the length?

I am not trying to say I am perfect and blame the razor. I welcome any thoughts about how I could improve.

Thanks

Tim

I probably get a lot of of grief for saying this, but temper and hardness really doesn't have a lot to do with sharpness. But it has everything to do with edge holding. As far as I can see, you should be able to get a piece soft steel as sharp as a hardened piece of steel. Its the same stuff. But if its not heat treated it will get dull the first time it's used. People have passed the ABS cutting tests with unhardened knives just to see if it could be done and they did. I don't see why if using gentle strokes you couldn't get the soft steel as sharp as the hardened. It just wom't hold that edge. O.K. you can all bash me now.

Originally Posted by Guarnera

I probably get a lot of of grief for saying this, but temper and hardness really doesn't have a lot to do with sharpness. But it has everything to do with edge holding. As far as I can see, you should be able to get a piece soft steel as sharp as a hardened piece of steel. Its the same stuff. But if its not heat treated it will get dull the first time it's used. People have passed the ABS cutting tests with unhardened knives just to see if it could be done and they did. I don't see why if using gentle strokes you couldn't get the soft steel as sharp as the hardened. It just wom't hold that edge. O.K. you can all bash me now.

No bashing from me . I agree

Originally Posted by Guarnera

I probably get a lot of of grief for saying this, but temper and hardness really doesn't have a lot to do with sharpness. But it has everything to do with edge holding. .

What would be the effect of varying temper/hardness along the length? One area would flex more or less for example. Change your bevel angle for that section maybe.

For now I have put that one aside and I have a new favorite blade [probably favorite hone job would be a better description!].

I think I will start another thread about about my technique or lack of it. I noticed on the next blade that the bevel got narrower in the same general area about an inch back from the tip. And on one side not the other. It seems like a pattern is emerging.

Thanks

Tim

Originally Posted by 32t

I noticed on the next blade that the bevel got narrower in the same general area about an inch back from the tip. And on one side not the other. It seems like a pattern is emerging.

Thanks

Tim

You get some like that with off grinds. It may be a warp in the spine or the edge. You'll probably find the bevel is correspondingly wider on the other side. 2 in a row is lucky tho