Thread: Frowning X stroke

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• I received my Great Grandfathers razor today, a Red Point from Utica Knife. He was a Barber all his life. The razor is in ok condition, but has a significant frown. This got me thinking again about the X stroke. I made mention a few months back that it seemed to me an Xstroke on a stone that is less wide than a blade is long would produce a frown. So i took the time to illustrate the first stroke of an Xstroke, with the lines of contact in red.
• It seems obvious to me that this, over time, would cause a frown, as opposed to inappropriate technique being the cause, as was alluded to in a response to my suggestion, although that certainly would make the situation worse.
• That's not to say that a straight stroke wouldn't have issues of it's own, and is not possible anyhow if the hone is narrower than the blade is long.

Anyone see anything wrong with my thinking here?

You're not the first person to note that possibility. Have you see the 1961 barber manual excerpt on honing in the SRP Wiki help files ? On page 24 IIRC they go into how to avoid that very thing while successfully using the x stroke. Here it is in PDF format .

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

You're not the first person to note that possibility. Have you see the 1961 barber manual excerpt on honing in the SRP Wiki help files ? On page 24 IIRC they go into how to avoid that very thing while successfully using the x stroke. Here it is in PDF format .

Beat me to it.

I have gotten around the "blade is wider than the stone" by running the blade at a sharp angle instead of exactly perpendicular to the hone.

The wider the hone, the less angular you have to hold the blade, but I have kept full contact on hones as narrow as 2 inch with no problems.
Finished up as per normal, and dont notice any difference in shave quality.

I realise your illustration is just that, an illustration but it appears the start of the stroke would have the tang well on to the stone & the finish of the stroke seems to finish prematurely in the middle of the blade. Don't mean to criticise, that's just what I'm seeing.

Originally Posted by onimaru55

I realise your illustration is just that, an illustration but it appears the start of the stroke would have the tang well on to the stone & the finish of the stroke seems to finish prematurely in the middle of the blade. Don't mean to criticise, that's just what I'm seeing.

Your critique is correct, but yes it is for illustrative purposes anyway. I did not draw the tang, just the part of the razor that is being honed.
Perhaps I should redraw it, but I think the drawing illustrates my point and would not be changed even if I did start at the shoulder and ended with the blade fully off the stone at the bottom. I believe it actually would make the effect greater, cause the heel of the blade would spend even less time on the stone.

So I redid the illustration based on Onamaru's astute observation.
Interesting result.
What comes to light is that you will tend to frown a razor...if you do not take the blade all the way off the stone at the end of the stroke.
But, taking it off the stone will cause uneven wear still, just narrowing the blade from the heel to the toe. I think I've seen plenty of old blades with this effect to know it is true.
I'll be paying alot closer attention to my blades during my Xstrokes from now on.

As has been said before, hone the entire edge an you will be ok. In a correct stroke all three basic parts of the edge(toe, heel, body) will be on and off of the stone in a single stroke.

Originally Posted by souschefdude

Perhaps I should redraw it, but I think the drawing illustrates my point and would not be changed even if I did start at the shoulder and ended with the blade fully off the stone at the bottom. I believe it actually would make the effect greater, cause the heel of the blade would spend even less time on the stone.

This is where the "art " over shadows the science. The way you 'pressure' ( I know bad word) the stroke can prevent the frowning effect & give an even coverage but also the technique as explained in the Barber Text is a simple solution.
With regards to the razor in question, bear in mind the spine will also be ground incorrectly now & will need to be reset also.
Some good info here if you haven't seen it already
Honing: Troubleshooting Guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki