Thread: Honing Escapades - A beginner's experience

Hi folks,
The other day, I received my new Veho microscope and decided to take advantage of the opportunity and take my scope for a field test and try out my honing skills with various stones, monitoring the edge each time at the end of a progression.

This is a humble pictorial of what I have so far and wanted to share and get some feedback (good, bad, and the ugly). What I learned from this excercise was that I have a LONG way to go before I can even close to any of the edges that some of you pros get in 30 minutes or less.

Tools:

1. 6/8" Respecto #77
2. 3M electrical tape (thickness=0.007") - one layer on spine
3. Veho-VMS-004 microscope
4. Naniwa 1k
5. Natural Combo BBW/Coticule (quarry?/kind?)
6. Nakayama Kiita
7. Nakayama Asagi
8. CrOx pasted webbed fabric (hanging)
9. Premium IV Bridle strop (hanging)

1. Naniwa 1k (Setting the bevel).
The bevel on the blade was already set, but I wanted to start over for sake of consistency. I used 30 X-strokes with light pressure and proceeded with 50 laps with "no' pressure. It passed HHT (I don't like to do arm hair).



2. BBW/Coticule (dilucot method)
After the Naniwa 1k, I raised a light-moderate slurry on this stone and started the dilucot method; (a) 20 laps of "back and forth" each with 6 dilutions (very light pressure on spine), (b) rinsed stone and raised new slurry, (c) 15 laps of X-strokes each with 5 dilutions (no pressure), (d) 50 laps on water alone (no pressure)



3. Kiita (w/ tomonagura slurry)
After the Coticule, I raised a slight slurry with the tomonagura on the Kiita Honzan and performed; (a) 20 X-strokes (no pressure) each with 5 dilutions, (b) 50 laps on water alone.



4. Asagi
4a. w/ slurry stone
After the Kiita, I raised a slight slurry with the tomonagura on the Asagi Honzan and performed; (a) 20 X-strokes (no pressure) each with 5 dilutions, (b) 50 laps on water alone.

4b. w/ diamond slurry
After the Asagi slurry progression, I rinsed the Asagi (obviously) and raised a slight slurry with the DMT-325 and performed; (a) 20 X-strokes (no pressure) each with 5 dilutions, (b) 50 laps on water alone.



5. Leather strop
After the Asagi, took the blade through 50 laps on the leather side of my Premium IV.



6. CrOx pasted strop (webbed fabric)
I wanted to see if after the Asagi/leather strop, things got any smoother with CrOx, stayed the same or deteriorated. So, I did 15 light laps on the CrOx pasted strop and to my surprise, the bevel/edge was worse than with the Asagi or strop.



I am looking for feedback from members who have many more years of experience than me in this. Am I on the right track? how far am I from the goal of the all elusive "Perfect" edge? Any advice/feedback will be profoundly appreciated.


My next exercise/homework will be to try this with the Y/G Escher I got from JimmyHAD and report back any differences I see or observe (using the same blade). This will not be in the near future, but I am looking at sometime in December or when the edge on this blade needs a little nudge in the right direction

It is hard to tell from pictures if you're on the right track or not. How's the shave? That's all that matters.

You have some nice tools to work with, though

Originally Posted by richmondesi

It is hard to tell from pictures if you're on the right track or not. How's the shave? That's all that matters.

You have some nice tools to work with, though

Hi Paul,
Tomorrow will be the test (since I already shaved this AM). Having said that, he ideal test should be during each progression (for an objective assessment of edge with each stone and progression), but that will require the luxury of time (and patience).

It does pop hair mid-air...very very sharp. Will it be smooth? I will know tomorrow

Originally Posted by richmondesi

It is hard to tell from pictures if you're on the right track or not. How's the shave? That's all that matters.

You have some nice tools to work with, though

+1. You're having fun and using your stones so that is way cool. Nice photos BTW. Hope the shave is smooth for you.

My microscope is this:



I've got the 10x eyepieces in now, which gives me 10x and 30x. I haven't tried the 15x eyepieces yet though, which would give 15x and 45x, obviously.

My high powered microscope is this one:



It has 40x-100x-400x. But, I have no external light source, so it's not very useful for looking at edges.

I just started honing my Dovo Special, using the stereo scope to see the results. I got a fair shave from it yesterday, but it's not as smooth as I would like.

The one factor I'm questioning is the tape. I can't touch it up on a hone without taping it, once I've set the bevel with tape on the spine. I don't know how vital the tape is to the edge, or if it's really just for protection of the spine.

So much stuff, so tired after a long drive...

First, the photos are great! I have a fantastic stereomicroscope but I envy those photos.

Ok, new first, because it's important (at least in my head), you might want to consider using the scope to assess your bevel setting and then putting it away for anything but recreational purposes. I think the scope is a fantastic tool for bevel setting, but after that I'm not sure that it is informative regarding the ultimate goal of the quality of the shave.

Second, I realize you are using a slurry stone on your Jap hones, but I'm not sure of there being any benefit to using both a Kiita and an Asagi, especially when you are using the same slurry stone for each. In my opinion, they should be ballpark comparable. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just throwing out the question.

Third, I suppose the scratch pattern your got from the Cro-Ox depends on the quality of the stuff you got. Given what I'd guess you spent on those hones, I would hope you didn't buy cheap Cro-Ox that is not of a fine uniform grade.

Finally, I would suggest that you do the leather stropping after, rather than before, the Cro-Ox stropping.

Finally again, since I thought of another, great job again with the scope photos and have fun experimenting with the toys! Everybody likes (well, at least 7 of us) the high mag honing photos and its always great to see what different hones accomplish.

Originally Posted by TheMetatron

My microscope is this:



I've got the 10x eyepieces in now, which gives me 10x and 30x. I haven't tried the 15x eyepieces yet though, which would give 15x and 45x, obviously.

My high powered microscope is this one:



It has 40x-100x-400x. But, I have no external light source, so it's not very useful for looking at edges.

I just started honing my Dovo Special, using the stereo scope to see the results. I got a fair shave from it yesterday, but it's not as smooth as I would like.

The one factor I'm questioning is the tape. I can't touch it up on a hone without taping it, once I've set the bevel with tape on the spine. I don't know how vital the tape is to the edge, or if it's really just for protection of the spine.

Thank you sir . The tape, as far as I understand, is mainly for protection of spine. But use of it would create a wider angle on your bevel...the more tapes you use, the wider the angle of the "V" on your bevel

Originally Posted by Utopian

So much stuff, so tired after a long drive...

First, the photos are great! I have a fantastic stereomicroscope but I envy those photos.

Thanks Ron . First and foremost: are you now officially in Baltimore? Good luck with the new job. I'd love to know whose lab or which school/dept you're in. Maybe we can hook up when I come to town to visit. I will probably be there on a conference in Feb sometime (haven't decided yet).

Second: I got this scope because it is "maneuverable" and small. I have a great stereoscope that I brought home from lab (after its official retirement) when it got replaced with a newer scope...but, it is big, heavy and has no external light source and no camera hookup (via eyepiece or other)...when I visualize an edge under it, it is truly fantastic and images crisp.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Ok, new first, because it's important (at least in my head), you might want to consider using the scope to assess your bevel setting and then putting it away for anything but recreational purposes. I think the scope is a fantastic tool for bevel setting, but after that I'm not sure that it is informative regarding the ultimate goal of the quality of the shave.

You are dead on ...That is exactly the plan...I wanted to see what I am doing and correlate that with the edges I get (or feel). Looking at this under a scope can be time consuming and annoying" if I wanted to use it every time I honed a blade (not that i do it everyday). This is simply an assessment tool for me right now and one that allows me to; (a) dial in my skill at each progression, (b) know what each stone can do (physically at least). Like Paul mentioned, quality of the shave is the ultimate test...I will post about that this morning.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Second, I realize you are using a slurry stone on your Jap hones, but I'm not sure of there being any benefit to using both a Kiita and an Asagi, especially when you are using the same slurry stone for each. In my opinion, they should be ballpark comparable. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just throwing out the question.

Very good point...and it was more a curiosity than anything else...wanted to see the scratch patterns of Kiita compared to Asagi since one is hard and one is supposed to be softer (at least with the stones I have). The slurry stones for each is different, but I have come to really like the diamond slurry edge (from the images at least)

Originally Posted by Utopian

Third, I suppose the scratch pattern your got from the Cro-Ox depends on the quality of the stuff you got. Given what I'd guess you spent on those hones, I would hope you didn't buy cheap Cro-Ox that is not of a fine uniform grade.

I got this from Don at SRD...I am sure they sell good quality CrOx...Thoughts ?

I also think that the medium on which the CrOx is used may make a big difference...for example, a CrOx on leather would probably feel and act different than CrOx on webbed fabric (like mine was)...but, not sure of this(just a hunch)

Originally Posted by Utopian

Finally, I would suggest that you do the leather stropping after, rather than before, the Cro-Ox stropping.

That's what I do before shaving anyway...always. it just happened that I decided to include CrOx after I had stropped on leather. After CrOx, the blade went through diamond slurry/leather stropping and is ready for shaving in the AM.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Finally again, since I thought of another, great job again with the scope photos and have fun experimenting with the toys! Everybody likes (well, at least 7 of us) the high mag honing photos and its always great to see what different hones accomplish.

Thanks maestro for the inputs...very, very valuable.

One of my evaluation points has always been to look at the bevel off angle and make sure there was no return reflection. I would be interested in seeing that view.

With that tactic your objective is to try and find the most effective method for eliminating any return reflection from the edge.

One thing I would say that may be taken as criticism .... but isn't really .... why hone on expensive high grit finishers and then go to diamond or chrome-ox ? If I am finishing on a yellow/green Escher or an outstanding coticule I want to feel the results of those stones on my face. Same with the 12k naniwa or the Shapton pro 30k.

Taking it a step further, regarding my personal preferences, I would shave test off of the coticule edge. Then go to the first of those J-nats and shave test off of that and finally to the second J-nat. Rather than honing on them in a progression, one after the other, without assessing the shaving results of each. Different strokes for different folks.