Thread: Complicated (?) taping question

Originally Posted by pcb01

Yes, when the tape is replaced it restores the geometry and refocuses the honing to the very edge of the bevel.

But, following that logic, doesn't this mean that for efficient honing, we should replace the tape very frequently and not, as I believe most of us do, when we get tape bunnies on the hone or see visible wear? And that the most efficient (if impractical) strategy would be to retape after every stroke?

I guess I don't see a point into descending that far into the theoretical. Changing the tape just prior to moving up to each higher grit is sufficient to maintain the full plane of the bevel.

There would be a visual clue of this - I think. As the leading edge of the blade rises because of the new angle established by the wearing tape, the water in front of the blade would stop making the blade wave. In experienced hands, and I'm out of my league here, light torquing would maintain the blade wave. Experienced hands would know when there's too much torque and tape replacement is needed. Inexperienced hands would need to make tape changes more often.

Originally Posted by Utopian

I guess I don't see a point into descending that far into the theoretical. Changing the tape just prior to moving up to each higher grit is sufficient to maintain the full plane of the bevel.

I don't see that. If the spine (with tape) is wearing faster than the steel bevel, then the full bevel cannot be maintained (until/unless the tape is changed), or, as Glen and others suggest, the honer consciously or unconsciously torques the blade to correct it . Maybe the question is, (excluding torque for the moment) when, optimally, should the tape be changed?

The practical part, maybe I'm figuring, is that tape should be changed more frequently then most of us do (thanks, Obelisk). How do we know it's optimal with each change of grit? Changing after every stroke is impractical, obviously. Changing only when the tape is obviously worn (which is what I do if it precedes a change in grit) may mean that for some time I've been honing not the edge of the bevel, but somewhere between it and the body of the blade (i.e., the "shoulder" between the bevel and the (unbeveled) body).

The sweet, efficient spot must be somewhere between those extremes.

Or so it seems to me. But I may be losing it....

I've wandered the same thing. It seems like taping would lead to a curved bevel. Great discussion.

Here is my strategy:

I repeatedly replace tape as needed during bevel setting. When I'm ready to move off of the 1k hone, I replace the tape and then do 10 more strokes on the 1k. Then I hone on the 2k for as long as I see fit. I replace the tape and do 10 more strokes on the 2k. Then I hone on the 3k for as long as I see fit. I replace the tape...

The same pattern continues all the way up. It works for me.

I am on board with Utopian...

I change tape when needed on the 1k, as soon as the shine is off the tape on the spine (I only use 3m 700)
I change tape when I move to the next stone normally a 2/3/4 k then again when I go to the 5/6/8 k

I always change tape before the finishers,

Now if I am using say the Naniwas I might not change tape from the 3-5 or from the 8-10... or the Shaptons between the 4-6 or the 8-16..

But honestly as soon as the shine is off the tape I change it regardless, you can see this and feel this when honing...

If you are going to use tape, keep it flat, straight, and change it often, if that sounds to complicated then take the tape off and ride the hones bareback
Keep this in mind though the same minute change principal that applies to the tape on the spine applies to the steel on the spine too

Utopian and Glen:

Thanks so much. I think you are instinctually doing what my thought experiment tells me I should be doing.

I typically hone on tape until a) the steel shines through or b) the aforementioned "tape bunnies" appear on the hone. Clearly too long. And I wonder why it takes so long to set a bevel!

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by pcb01

Thanks so much. I think you are instinctually doing what my thought experiment tells me I should be doing.

Well, actually I DID put some thought into it to arrive at that strategy. Glen probably did too!

Originally Posted by pcb01

According to the logic in the OP, you'd have to change the tape after every stroke to keep the very edge of the bevel on the hone.

I am not a master honer by any stretch of the term, but I have given some thought to this myself. I do not think this to be true - I disagree on the premises. I rarely change tape during honing, at least compared to what seems to be the practice here. This does not apply to the bevel setting phase, on the coarse hones tape may need to be changed often, and it is evident there is wear on the tape pretty soon. However, after I hit the 3k hone I rarely will change the tape. I do not think the tape wears faster than the steel. I don't know why, perhaps the softer and more flexible structure of the tape help protect it, perhaps I somehow managed to get a small torque in the honing movement, perhaps the tape has a better glide and so doesn't wear as fast - when I take it off after polishing, it is very hard to see any honewear at all on the tape. I will sometimes check the tape under my microscope to see if I can spot any signs of wear on it, most of the times I cannot. I do not know why.


Edit:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I change tape when needed on the 1k, as soon as the shine is off the tape on the spine (I only use 3m 700)

Ah, never thought of this - what a simple solution. My tape is not high gloss, that may be why I am having problems detecting honewear. I'll get some new tape and see if that alters my experience.

I've wondered about the thinning of vinyl tape on spines ever since I started taping. After reading some responses, I did a search for titanium tape. Figured that would be harder than any blade and would hold up during honing. Unfortunately, the only titanium tape I could find is not adhesive backed and is used for some sort of joint pain relief. Like copper bracelets I suppose.

But, I did find S.S. adhesive tape and got to wondering. Isn't S.S. harder than razor steel (except for S.S. blades)? If this is the case, should it wear down slower than the edge during honing? Granted, it's pricey and seems to be too wide, but it is a thought. Just wondering, what do the experts think about this. Here's one of the links I found.
http://www.tapecase.com/p.2672.646/s...foil-tape.aspx