Thread: I didn't realize how important FLAT is to a hone!

I lapped both my fine and ultra-fine ceramic hones with a 400 grit diamond plate. Did I make the fine hone finer, and the ultra-fine hone less fine?

If so, what do you think I can do with that ultra-fine hone? Lap it with the other side (600 grit) of my diamond plate?

What I concluded from reading Spyderco's description was that it is the pattern they create on the ceramic that creates the "grit" size. Thus it will depend upon the pattern you used in lapping that will determine "grit" of your hones. I would suspect that if you used the 600 side and used multiple direction passes that you may end up with a finer "grit". Vertical back and forth, horizontal back and forth, diagonal back and forth, if that makes any sense. North-South, East-West, then diagonal at 45 degrees northeast-southwest, northwest-southeast. Better?
You will simply have to try it to find out. The test is in both how it feels to hone on it and the edge it produces.

Keep us posted on your efforts,

I took my ceramic hones, and pattern lapped them with my diamond plate. On the Spyderco Medium (brown) and fine (white) hones, I used the 400 grit side of my diamond plate. On the Spyderco Ultra Fine hone, I used the 600 grit side of the diamond plate.

I lapped a criss cross pattern into all three hones, 45 degrees off each side of the long axis. A only did a few strokes in each of these directions.

Indeed, the cutting ability of the ceramic hones was improved dramatically. Dramatically.

Now the question really is, what the hell is going on with these hones? The scratch patterns I put into the face of the ceramic hones are visible to the naked eye, so the individual striations can't be much closer than 100 micrometers apart. That's a huge distance compared to the size of the sintered alumina particles of the ceramic material.

I think what this did was to make deep ditches where the honing debris can collect, leaving the remaining ceramic surface clean to remove steel. What makes me think this is that my hones feel all the time now, like they did for the first few laps right after cleaning them with scouring powder.

But still, what puzzles me about this idea is that I had the same depth of scratches before criss-cross lapping the hones, only the lapping scratches would have been along the long axis of the hone only.

There's more going on here than meets the eye.

Anyway, I had moved the bevel back behind a couple of dings I had put in the edge with the scales of the razor, and after criss-cross lapping my ceramic hones, the scratch marks on the razor bevel from the 600 grit diamond plate came off with ease. Prior to the criss-cross lapping, I could make hundreds of laps on my ceramic hones with hardly any effect at all on the razor.

Next weekend, the shave will tell a more complete story. But, the microscope results look better than the last time.

Is what I've done to these ceramic hones what may be termed dressing them?

Thanks a bunch for keeping us posted! This is much appreciated.

Yes, you have now "dressed" the hones. You seem to think that the alumina is doing the abrading, I disagree, it is the ceramic + alumina that is doing the abrading. The grit size has now been created by you with the multi directional lapping. The grit size is also much coarser, thats why it cuts so fast. Perhaps, just perhaps, a finer grit would result from dressing with additional directions and/or a finer diamond plate?

Be sure to slightly soften the edges of the hones. It will help prevent microchipping of the razors edge when your honing stroke is slightly off.

I hope others will lend their opinion on this thread......

I didn't care for my Spydercos' flatness, either. As measured on a sine bar, my UF was the worst of the 3 and was slightly over the allowed tolerance at the time of purchase. I lapped all my Spyderco hones (M, F, & UF) with a DMT 125 XX followed by a 325 X. Mine all cut distinctly different, even though lapped with exactly the same hones and procedures. Lapping is something I routinely prefer because it eliminates some variables and has few-if-any downsides.

Here's a quote from a post made by Sal over at the Spyderco forum, regarding the UF:

• "Our Ultra fine stone took many years to develop and few know about them." - Sal, 01-12-2008

It doesn't take "many years" to figure out how to lap a Fine.

The F and UF have a different density, meaning a different end material; either in component, and/or mix ratio, and/or firing procedure. Test it yourself by tapping each hone in turn, and hear the difference. Their reflectivity is also different.

My UF was purchased several years ago and came with at least a "two-pass" lapping operation on each surface. Not sure about current production. The tolerance for flatness at that time was 0.020". I am assuming they meant "over the entire surface" since "distance over" tolerance wasn't specified. In any event, like your's, they all did better after lapping.

I don't use it much, anymore, as I now prefer several barber hones for speed and feedback. I still like the UF's ability to get a fine edge quite a lot.

Hi,

I was lucky with my Spyderco UF - it was flat enough to be useable for honing razors out of the box. I initially got this stone to act as a low maintenance touch-up stone.

+1 on Randy's observation about the use of slurries on the Spydercos.

I have had good results using a variety of slurry sources (from the cheap King Nagura to coti rubbers, CrOx & diamond sprays) on this stone.

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

...and, I'll take the advice to round over the edge of at least the ultra-fine ceramic hone. They are quite sharp. Although I haven't caused any chips from them yet, I can see how easy it would be to do.

It was the low maintenance of these hones that I was after when I bought them. However, they have been fiddly to get quite right up until now. I am questioning the wisdom of getting these hones over say, a nice Norton 4/8K. But, I have what I have, and I am motivated to make them work. Just not sure I'd recommend the same path to someone else just starting out honing straight razors.

This may be off the subject a bit but still about hones. I am looking to get into honing my own razor mostly touch ups. I do not want to have to worry about flattening hones and would like to get an as maintenance free hone as possible. Is there any recommendations for this type of hone.

Lapping these hones, to me, is about the surface finish, not the flatness.

Yes, I had the same experience when I lapped my Translucent and Black Arkansas stones. Thety were way too hard for me to get them perfectly flat. The best I could do was to change their surface finish, which did make a difference.

Originally Posted by Bnick

This may be off the subject a bit but still about hones. I am looking to get into honing my own razor mostly touch ups. I do not want to have to worry about flattening hones and would like to get an as maintenance free hone as possible. Is there any recommendations for this type of hone.

Barber hones tend to be quite hard and so don't require lapping. They work fine for the eternal maintenance of a shave ready razor.