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  1. #1
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    Default Setting the Bevel

    Greetings,

    I have been playing with my coticule the past few days and have realised that i don't have a good handle on confirming when the bevel is correctly set.

    for example...I have a reasonable condition hollow ground razor that I have been working on. The TNT feedback seems to be identical across the length of the edge - that of a light and smooth draw. It's biting but not a serrated sensation. However there is a clear difference in the toe end and heel of the blade when shaving arm hair. The heel end will shave arm hairs but not well. It misses hairs and pulls and tugs. The last inch toward the toe is much sharper seems to cut hair with much less effort.

    I have realised at this point that I'm not sure exactly how well and easily the edge should conduct this arm shaving test. I know how easily a shave ready straight will shave arm hairs and it is far superior to where I am at. Should a set bevel deal with them in the same manner or just perform as I have at the toe end. Is shaving the hair as I have at the heel acceptable or not? i would think not but as a newb I am uncertain of where the edge should perform once the bevel is correct.

    I don't have any magnification but perhaps I should try the marker test from here? I don't seem to be getting any more feedback from the TNT...at least not that I am sensitive enough to discern.

  2. #2
    I Bleed Slurry Disburden's Avatar
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    Default

    Try the marker test and see where you're missing the edge. I hone on coticules sometimes too, I know how to use them, please you can pm me if you need to.

    Make sure your slurry is not thick, otherwise it will dull the edge more right after the edge hits its bevel limit and you won't realize it. This can make it seem like nothing is happening. Also watch the water to see how it glides over the edge, it should flow over the entire blade as you stroke through the stone.

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  4. #3
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    Default

    Thanks mate. It is possible I dulled the heel section back as I let my slurry thicken a bit too much before I decided to call it quits for the day. I made a few bad strokes and restarted a couple of times and decided the concentration level had drifted at that point. It is pretty hot and dry where I am so it can get frustrating trying to keep the slurry at the right point to cut reasonably fast without getting too thick.

    I did have the slurry undercutting quite well at one point, I had a nice uniform wave pushing out and also riding up the blade. of course I duffed a stroke at that point and lost it

    I have been making a few sets of 30 half strokes and then checking the way the slurry behaves with some X-strokes.

    I'm still struggling with identifying the bevel limit as you put it. Any pointers of what is acceptable and when I can move onto the next stage of the unicot?
    Last edited by SmallyetDeadly; 01-21-2011 at 02:38 AM.

  5. #4
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    Default

    For me, the bevel is set when I can easily shave arm or leg hair all along the bevel. I usually check it in 5-6 places from toe to heel.

    Don't move on until you can do this. You'll just be refining and polishing an inadequate bevel, which = a waste of time.

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    Default

    Ok i'd say i have that toe section in good order. I will try again this afternoon to bring the rest up to scratch and use the marker test to check my stroke.

  8. #6
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    Default

    I've been attempting to identify a properly set bevel by viewing the edge through 10X and continuing to take off steel on 1K until there are no reflections at all from where the edge should be. I also test on arm hair, but I'm running out of arm hair that I can reach comfortably without opening a vein.

    My problems seem to be more at the toe than at the heel. I was seeing reflections from the edge on the toe yesterday long after they had disappeared on the heel. I know why this is, the blade not being flat on the stone. I was able to remedy this by extending my X pattern more than I had been, bringing the blade farther off the stone at the botton of the downward X. However, this process took hours on 1K, eventually requiring me to place a finger on the toe during circular strokes and apply pressure. The result was a much "taller" bevel than I wanted, with the bevel being taller than what I see on Shave Ready edges. As I finished through the pyramid with 4K, 8K, and 12K, and on to wool and diamond spray and leather stropping, the edge seemed fine, but the bevel was so shiny and "obvious" and seemed three times as tall as what I'm seeing on properly done blades.

    It took me forever after breadknifing to get a bevel with 1K. We're talking hours here. I was concentrating on little pressure, circular and X strokes. I think that toward the end because of so little success I was probably applying more pressure than when I started and the full hollow ground blade was flexing and that accounted for the tall bevel. I'm going to give the next bevel set attempt a shot with my 220 grit in the hope that it will go quicker, get me a shallow bevel, and allow me to minimize pressure.

  9. #7
    Silky Smooth
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    Fellas,

    The sure way to know that you have a completely set bevel is to grind one side of the edge until you have formed a bur, then do the same to the other side. Gently remove the bur by lightly pulling the edge across a piece of paper, or a piece of wood, or your thumbnail, etc. and you're there. You can then continue with your honing steps.

    Be careful & have fun,
    Jeff

  10. #8
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffR View Post
    Fellas,

    The sure way to know that you have a completely set bevel is to grind one side of the edge until you have formed a bur, then do the same to the other side. Gently remove the bur by lightly pulling the edge across a piece of paper, or a piece of wood, or your thumbnail, etc. and you're there. You can then continue with your honing steps.

    Be careful & have fun,
    Jeff

    I absolutely beg to differ,,,

    Never raise a burr on a razor it is not needed, nor recommended..

    Take the bevel to a TNT and learn to read it then refine that edge to the AHT if possible for you, it isn't possible for everyone... But honestly we manged to set bevels without that test just 3 short years ago...
    The TNT, and the TPT and finally the Shave test are the most important to learn for honing razors everything else is subject to interpetation...


    Edit: Using a DE blade to learn the feel of the various tests is a good starting point for Newbs...
    Last edited by gssixgun; 01-21-2011 at 03:28 PM.

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  12. #9
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    Default

    Totally agree.

    I have seen a lot of problems in razors, particularly in spine and edge wear, including new ones being manufactured by one company that sets a burr in their process. Don't think knives with straight razors, think straight razors.

    For me a bevel should feel like a sharp pocket knife across the entire edge. That means that it wants to grab my thumb pad as I take it across (NOT ALONG!!) the edge using the TPT. It usually can also shave arm hair pretty easily, but I have gotten more used to the TPT. The key is to keep the razor perfectly flat on the stone when you are doing strokes or circles unless you have an unevenly flattened spine in which case a 45 degree angle approach to circles or strokes will help. It is not uncommon for an older flattened razor to take a couple attempts to get the bevel set correctly.

    Have fun,

    Lynn
    Last edited by Lynn; 01-21-2011 at 03:44 PM.

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  14. #10
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    Default

    Thanks for the additional info guys. I don't think I will be trying to raise a burr JeffR.

    I will try the tests with the DE blade for a point of reference. Am I right in assuming that a fresh DE is likely sharper than is neccessarily desirable for a straight and likely unattainable - especially for a nooba.

    I am pretty confident that I have set the bevel on this razor after another session on the coticule. The razor readily shaves arm hair across the length of the blade. My half bald forearm is evidence of a bit of glee experienced at getting a blunt razor to this stage

    I am going to try the unicot method from Coticule.be to finish the razor to shaving readiness from here. I am feeling a lot more confidence now that any errors I make can be corrected. I have made plenty of dud strokes along the way and some extra time or a refreshed slurry has remedied the problem. I was a bit concerned earlier in the piece that a bad stroke would do some sort of major damage to the razor.

    Hopefully I can arrive at a shaving edge and put my razor to use soon.

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