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Thread: Ain't got the touch :-(
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07-04-2006, 10:11 PM #21Originally Posted by ericm
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07-05-2006, 02:50 AM #22
So what test do you use, Joe, thumb test?
I'm trying to develop the feel for that but am having mixed success. Can the sound of the thumb running across the edge help in determining the sharpness? If yes, how do you compare different grinds?
BTW, if you can't use your own hair, use somebody else's. Maybe you can make new friends this way No, seriously, I have the same problem, so I just use my girlfriend's hair that I steal out of her hair brush.
Redwoood
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07-05-2006, 03:03 AM #23
I'll never understand why people find honing so difficult.............you put your razor and $20 in a box, mail it to Lynn and he will hone it every time, no fuss, no problems, no worries <g>.
Tony (still a better stropper than honer) MillerThe Heirloom Razor Strop Company / The Well Shaved Gentleman
https://heirloomrazorstrop.com/
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07-05-2006, 06:23 AM #24Originally Posted by Redwoood
Everyone in my family is fair haired, so it wouldn't help to use someone else's hair. My wife's is finer than mine.
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07-05-2006, 09:33 PM #25
Always interesting read, your posts, Joe.
I know how everybody always says that the best test is the actual shave... the only problem is that my skin doesn't like it when I don't give it one day rest - which can delay the whole hone/test cylce quite a bit. That's why I'm really interested in alternative sharpness tests.
What do you do to detect a wire edge ?
Redwoood
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07-05-2006, 11:51 PM #26Originally Posted by Redwoood
I know how everybody always says that the best test is the actual shave... the only problem is that my skin doesn't like it when I don't give it one day rest - which can delay the whole hone/test cylce quite a bit. That's why I'm really interested in alternative sharpness tests.
What do you do to detect a wire edge ?
You'll find a detailed discussion of the thumbnail and thumb tests at classicshaving.com, in the "how to .... and why" section under stropping and honing. I suggest you read those sections to understand the way the two tests work. Traditionally, the thumbnail test is done while you hone to tel you when to get off the hone, then you never do it again. You go to the strop next, and you do the thumb test to decide when the razor is ready to try a shave.
My modification was to use the thumbnail test on the 4K or medium hone to tell you when you have a good edge. You then move on to the 8K or fine hone and use the thumb test to track your progress. When the 8K stops showing improvement, you move on to the next finer grit, say a 12K or pasted strop. You use that until improvement stops, then you move to a finer grit. You use as many levels as you need to get the edge you want. So, I combine the two tests.
Since you can't use the thumbnail test after you've moved on to the thumb (it will dull the edge at that stage), you use the thumb test to evaluate a razor when you first pick it up. If the razor shows little grab in the thumb test, you drop back to the thumbnail test, until you pass it.
A wire edge is a defect in the edge (like a chip, or a total lack of sharpness), not a sharpness problem, so it's detected with the thumbnail test, after the razor fails the thumb test. I consider a sharpness problem a lackof sufficient sharpness in a well formed edge (so, a totally dull edge, as reflected by the thubnail test is an edge that needs to be created, not one that needs to be refined). You can recognize the wire edge because the edge won't draw smoothly across the thumbnail, but gives a halting, grating sensation. When you read about and work with the thumbnail test for a while, you will learn to recognize all the sensations that are described.
The thumbnail test should be used to qualify the edge first, regardless of which sharpness test (e.g. HHT, thumb etc.) you use. In other words, you need to know you have a nice unchipped, wire-free edge before you start polishing and testing for sharpness. I don't know of any other test that can detect all the edge defects. For example, if the edge shaves poorly, I don't know a more definitive way to determine if it's just dull or a wire edge or a chip(s). In the thumbnail test each of these faults has a distinct sensory characteristic.
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07-06-2006, 12:48 AM #27Originally Posted by Joe Lerch
Despite the silly title that is under my name by now, I'm about as far away from being a honemeister as I am from winning olympic gold in synchronized swimming. And I'm not quite sure which of the two would be easier for me to reach
Redwoood
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07-06-2006, 08:18 AM #28Originally Posted by Redwoood
So, you can see how difficult a question you asked. Like beauty, a week edge is in the eye of the beholder. What I like may be too weak for a guy with a tougher beard. It might not last through his shave. So, we can all agree that a wire edge is bad, and we know how to detect it, but the weakness of the edge you select is a matter of personal choice. I use "weakness", because in the spectrum of sharp edges the razor definitely falls at the weak end, but it also sports the keenest edge.
All I can tell you is that if you find an edge can't get you through a shave without re-stropping you might consider going for less sharpness next time. I say "might" because it was not unusual to see an old time barber strop a razor in the middle of a shave. So, he would only go so far in avoiding a weak edge. There was a point where he had to accept it in order to get the edge keen enough for comfortable shaving. Sometimes I would even see the barber sneak a few swipes on a little hone he carried in his pocket.
I draw the line at honing. I refuse to refresh the razor for every shave. Every 3-5 I don't mind, because it's only a few (3 or 4) swipes.
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07-07-2006, 06:10 AM #29Originally Posted by Joe Lerch
Glen
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07-07-2006, 06:10 AM #30Originally Posted by Joe Lerch
Glen