Well got my new nortons out tonight 220/1k and a 4k/8k. I also bought the lapping stone. I was surprised that they needed as much lapping as they did being they were brand new. The 8k seemed to take forever I had to stop and rest while lapping it. Maybe it did not take hours but plenty long. Now i am glad I got the lapping stone and actually used it. I would have been chasing my tail worse if I had used them and then wondered why i could not get an edge. I did manage to get 3/4 of a blade shave ready . I could not get the tip to sharpen. I think i need to go back and flatten the whole edge so it makes contact.