Thread: Noob question about the pyramid.

To leave no doubt here and have all cards on the table; I don't hone. I hope to some day in the not too distant future, but today for today I don't know how. Sharpening kitchen knifes I manage with a modicum of competence, but not honing.

As an aspiring honing apprentice, I've read, watched videos, followed threads and asked more than a few silly questions. It seems that one of the easiest and more cost effective entry points to honing is with Norton stones and I've decided that I will try that. I've ordered a combination 4k/8k stone and a 220/1k and truthfully I can't wait to wreck some eBay losers I have acquired just for this.

And I've searched for the answer to this, but I haven't found it. I'm struggling to understand the logic or rationale behind the pyramid system. I understand the mechanics of it, but my vertical thinking brain keeps turning a red light: If I go from a higher grit to a lower grit... I'm setting my work back. The point is to get the smoothest edge, and going back and forth seems to postpone the desired outcome, and I can't reconcile how going from smoother to harsher furthers the achievement of this goal.

Let me state that I'm not questioning either the method nor the results. Far from it. I'm just curious and seek understanding.

This question comes up repeatedly. Even when I give out the answer people just don't ever get it. So, don't let that bother you at all.

Because it's called a pyramid people attach mystical powers to it, then refute the mystical powers. It's really silly.

So, simple answer is that it's hard to be certain when to move up in grit. The answer is not a sharpness test, despite what you may read, because then you've honed away too much steel.

The simple answer is to do a combination of actions. In these steps:

1) Remove steel with a 4K stone
2) Apply just enough 8K strokes that allow you to test the blade
3) Do it again, and again, and again.

If you tested on 4K, 9 times out of 10, you'd screw it up because you can't really apply a sharpness test to 4K without going overboard and removing too much steel.

Eventually, you'll learn to do a perfect progession, moving from 4K to 8K.

But that ain't you.

Testing is important. Test after each primary iteration. As the blade gets sharper and sharper you do fewer and fewer passes on each grit in combo. So it would look like a pyramid.

Essentially, the cutting properties of the 4K are mixed with the polishing properties of the 8K to make a bevel that is somewhat similar to a shaving edge. Hit it correctly and it'll cut whiskers (4K) and feel smooth enough (8K) to shave really, really well.

So, part of what your missing is that the 4K does a good job of cutting hairs and the 8K doesn't need that many passes on a stone to make the edge shaveworthy.

Make better sense?

Let me address your specific comment. If you go from 8K to 4K your not setting your work back if your objective is to remove more steel. You remove more steel because you tested it after 8K. If you stay on the 8K you'll be there all night long. So you go back to the 4K to do more cutting, then you have an untestable edge (based on your experience) so you add 8K to get some testing ability. If it fails you go back to 4k.

Back and forth, back and forth. Cutting/Polish, Cut/Polish, Test, Test, and more Test.

When I use the pyramid technique, it seems to make for an easier "progression". For me it eases the transition from 4K to 8K and brings both grits together in combination instead of allowing for a 4K gap that must be crossed.

Alan that was a really good explanation, I really think it should be added to the Wiki with the Pyramid article too, very clear and well written...

I agree that Alan's explanation brought pyramid honing into perspective. It was one of the first question i asked too.

Alan,

I'm in your debt. I had completely overlooked the testing piece, and in no small way showing my ignorance.

It all fits now; your explanation is thorough and clear.

I figured this question must have been asked by others, but for the life of me I couldn't find anything remotely resembling a coherent explanation.

Again, thank you for clearing this up for me.

Warm regards,

As a new user, this post was extremely helpful. Your explanation was spot on and really helped bring the pyramid technique into focus. Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.