Thread: Why does the X-Pattern not produce a frowning edge?

Hi,

This may have been covered before, but I'm curious as to why the X-Pattern does not produce a frowning edge?

With the X-Pattern, isn't the center of the blade in contact with the stone (on average) for longer than either the heel or tip? Therefore shouldn't more of the metal from the center of the blade be worn away than from either the tip or heel?

What have I forgotten to account for here?

Cheers, Knorm

Generally, over a very long term it most likely will produce a slight frown. It is correctable with counter pressure applied at the toe and heel.

your not missing anything.

The 1961 barber's manual PDF in the SRP Wiki help files is here. It is on honing and stropping and gives a tutorial on how to use the X pattern and avoid a frown. Illustrated with line drawings and photos. Good stuff.

Every single honing will produce frown.
X pattern will do less then straight pattern.
Depends how you take care of your stone and how consistent your stroke is.

Welcome to SRP, glad to have you aboard...

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The 1961 barber's manual PDF in the SRP Wiki help files is here. It is on honing and stropping and gives a tutorial on how to use the X pattern and avoid a frown. Illustrated with line drawings and photos. Good stuff.

I never saw that manual before. I just took a quick glimpse at it. It looks interesting. I will have to look at it more.

Originally Posted by Skippy

I never saw that manual before. I just took a quick glimpse at it. It looks interesting. I will have to look at it more.

I don't know how you missed this, it is Jimmy's favorite Public Service Announcement and hands down the handiest thing posted by anybody!

Thanks for the responses guys, and for the welcome from gssixgun.

Sounds like a very gradual process that one should just keep an eye out for, as an indicator of a flawed honing technique? Furthermore, from the Barber's Manual supplied by Jimmy, the most likely cause is an instinctive tendency to exert more pressure on the center of the blade during a honing stroke (with great instructions on how to fix an already frowning razor).

Short of building a mechanical honing machine to verify my original hypothesis, I'd hazard a guess that the center of the razor being in contact with the hone for a larger amount of time does have an effect on the amount of metal being removed. But perhaps this is the less significant cause to the effect of frowning, with the greater effect being the bio-mechanics of the person holding the honed blade, and their intrinsic tendency to increase downward pressure in the middle of a honing stroke?

I guess there is a little more to it than rubbing a flat piece of metal against a flat abrasive stone, because humans are involved.

Cheers for the insights,
Knorm

Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking, but I don't really know how any honing pattern, when properly used, will cause a frown, assuming you don't use a lot of pressure and your hone is flat.

If you take a frowning razor and lay it flat on the hone, the edge should contact the hone at the toe and the heal, but not in the middle of the frown. I suppose the same would be true for the spine.

If you think about the spine (when the razor is laid flat on the hone), a frowning razor will have more wear in the middle. This will cause the spine to form an n shape - contact at the toe and heal but not in the middle. The edge does the same thing. By my reasoning, which may well be flawed, this should prevent a frown from forming in the first place. A low spot (excessive wear) can't form in the center because there will be high spots at the toe and heal that will hold the center of the razor off the hone/reduce pressure at the center - UNLESS you really put pressure on the razor or have a non-flat hone. Right?

I have corrected frowns by using a back and forth stroke with more pressure at the toe and heel (one finger in each spot does the trick nicely), or I can hone up a frowing razor without removing the frown by treating the razor like each side is the concave side of a warped razor and honing it off the edge of the hone.