Thread: From 6000 to stropping?

PS: the CrOx from Woodcraft is NOT pure it is more for polishing metal on a buffer than honing we all use the pure stuff for honing..
The Woodcraft has FeOx at an unknown grit in there, we use the .50 CrOx SRD has it and Japanblades IIRC

The King stones are fine, and you can do what you want with them 1k -6k -CrOx (the good stuff) Linen - Leather - Shave

You have to understand that it is not a system that we would recommend, nor any of us really use, but yes it will shave...

Originally Posted by time2shave

How can I correct a spelling error in the subject line?

You can't only Mods can

Done !!!

What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki
This was an excellent article. But it still did not answer, what is the grit of the barber hone? How is it different from a regular finishing stone? Is it a natural stone? Why is it in a separate category? Where do I get it?

If I had me a 12K Chinese stone as a finisher and used slurry from a rubbing stone when I needed to take off a little extra, would that make a fair system for light duty work?
Buy Natural Water Stone, 8" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/4" at Woodcraft.com

Thanks.

Originally Posted by time2shave

What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki
This was an excellent article. But it still did not answer, what is the grit of the barber hone? How is it different from a regular finishing stone? Is it a natural stone? Why is it in a separate category? Where do I get it?

If I had me a 12K Chinese stone as a finisher and used slurry from a rubbing stone when I needed to take off a little extra, would that make a fair system for light duty work?
Buy Natural Water Stone, 8" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/4" at Woodcraft.com

Thanks.

There isn't an exact grit rating on the various barber hones out there, and they are not made any more. Made as in not natural stones
An approximation based on what I have read of feedback from the users of them would be somewhere between 8k and 12K. Don't get all locked up in that though, it really isn't important. It will refresh an edge slightly off, and that's all one needs to know IMHO

The place to find them would be eBay, the classifieds on here or various other places, like antique stores, garage sales and the like.
Swaty would be one brand to look for, there are several others.
Just search for the phrase barber hone (barber's hone)

As to the difference between a barber hone and a finisher, there principally aren't any. You can use any artificial or natural hone of a fine enough grit to touch up your razor when it starts to drop a little in keenness. exactly like a barber's hone.

hope that helps

Originally Posted by time2shave

What hone(s), paste(s), or spray(s) do I need? - Straight Razor Place Wiki
This was an excellent article. But it still did not answer, what is the grit of the barber hone? How is it different from a regular finishing stone? Is it a natural stone? Why is it in a separate category? Where do I get it?

If I had me a 12K Chinese stone as a finisher and used slurry from a rubbing stone when I needed to take off a little extra, would that make a fair system for light duty work?
Buy Natural Water Stone, 8" x 2-3/4" x 1-1/4" at Woodcraft.com

Thanks.

You are jumping all over the place but Yes...

There is very little to this all, too just "Shave"... if that is all you want to achieve is a shaving edge, then this is very easy... We take it to different levels here, this is why you are getting so many different answers...

The "grit" equivalent on a Barber's hone is not so easy to nail down, you will hear many different guesses anywhere from 6k to 12k
I personally after lapping literally 100's of them doubt anything above an 8k equivalent.. but that is JMHO...

Now what they do have is a ton of cutting power, which is why they are different from a normal finisher (using slurry from your finisher would accomplish much the same by increasing the cutting power)..

Imagine the Naniwa stones, look at the Super Stone compared to the Chosera both are 1k but the Chosera has more grit, so it cuts faster, that is sorta what a Barber's Hone does is has more grit so it cuts faster...

I hope that explains it..

Once you start honing this will all fall into a bit more perspective for you...

Yes, you are right, I am jumping around, because I have not yet decided what type of razor I want: brand new, restored "shave ready" or an e-bay special that is not too banged up. Right now I am just trying to determine what is available. My razor will probably determine which hones I end up buying. On the other hand, the hone availability and price might influence my razor selection. So, it's a package deal. Besides, I need to know all this stuff anyway if I am going to switch to a new razor type. Thanks for being patient with me.

So do you think that Chinese stone is all I would need for a razor in good condition, to hone it every few months?

It would not be my first choice as a maintenance hone...

A Barber's Hone would be, as that is exactly what it was designed to do...

Again we are talking degrees here, either would work, so would any stone that is about 6k or higher.... But a Barber's Hone was designed as a maintenance machine it is very specialized...

I started with a 1K King & 6K Ice Bear + .6 Flexcut honing compound. It was possible to get a good edge off the 6K - but very difficult for a beginner. Essentially, you just need to make lighter passes to get the 6K to act like an 8K. However, this means that instead of honing with "no pressure, just the weight of your finger holding the blade flat", you need to hone with "hold 1/3-1/2 of the weight of the razor up, so that it has less pressure on the stone". I'd mess up every 8-10 strokes, scrape my edge on the corner of the stone since I couldn't holding the razor flat consistantly while applying negative pressure, and have to start over with a reduced set of strokes on the 1K to take out the microscopic flat where I dinged it.

I'd recommend starting with a 8K and .5 CrOx (real stuff from SRD). You want good honing compound. Crummy stuff has bigger grit in it that leaves a ragged edge on the razor. Some block compounds have so much wax that the compoind starts making hills and valleys as you are stropping...

In terms of size: I've tried just going back and forth without an X-stroke, and have decided that X-strokes are pretty much mandatory if you want the WHOLE edge sharp. So 3" is not really needed. It does need to be wide enough to easily balance the blade on though. 2" is easy too. 1.5 is easy once you have 1/2 an hour of practice. This is a moot point for the Norton or Naniwa stones. They are 3". Since the 4/8 Norton or 3/8 combo stones are much more than an 8K - I'd definitely go that route.

For the .5 CroOx, I started with a 3x12" piece of leather from a craft store that is glued to a flat piece of hardwood. It's not as nice as a hanging strop, but it's a LOT cheaper.

I CroOx the edge weekly to refresh it, the 8K (+ CroOx) every 3rd or 4th time, and the 4K (+8K & CroOx) every 3rd or 4th time I do the 4K. I only go down to the coarse stone if the finer ones didn't make it shave perfectly (ie: the edge still has some roundness). You can use the 4K instead of a 1K to take out dings - it just takes a long time.

ps: I recommend the Naniwa hones. Not having to soak them first allows you to quickly touch up the edge in the morning if it needs it without being late for work

Originally Posted by time2shave

Yes, you are right, I am jumping around, because I have not yet decided what type of razor I want: brand new, restored "shave ready" or an e-bay special that is not too banged up.

This part is a no-brainer. Start with a shave ready razor (SRD, SRP classifieds, etc). Don't try to learn to hone until you've learned to shave well. If the razor isn't sharp, you'll get non-close shaves and lots of razor burn. And you need to know how to shave to "shave test" the edge to know whether your honing is working. Catch 22, with an easy solution. Buy shave ready, learn to shave 1st, learn to hone later. (Note weekly touch ups on CroOx are "maintenance", so you can start doing that right away )

Before shaving, I strop on poly webbing 30 strokes, and then strop on latigo leather 60 strokes. (Don't put paste on your daily use strop, it doesn't come off). I use an X-pattern when stropping since I think the edge is a little bit better - but I recommend starting with the standard back-n-forth (no X) until you are VERY used to flipping the raxor (ie: the 1st month or two) to avoid cutting into the edge of your strop. Some people also rub their strop 30 seconds before stropping to warm the waxes in the leather. I only do this if an edge of the strop feels like it's curling upwards a little bit (it's never anything I can see, but the razor sounds like it's not making contact with the entire surface of the strop).

Each morning when I get up and my hands still have the skin oil on them but haven't gotten dirty yet, I rub my leather strop with the palm of my hand about 50 times to condition & flatten the strop. Every 3 months or so, I wipe the strop down with a damp cloth and rub some glycerin into the surface to deep condition it.

I suspect the barber hones were the finest grit ceramic they could make in the early 1900's. ie: 8 to maybe 10 K. I suspect cheaper ones were 6-7 K, and that's why some people said they worked better with a coating of lather on them to act as a lubricant. (ps: I tried using lather on my 6K. The razor did slide a lot better, and allow a lighter touch. However, the 6K + lather didn't sharpen nearly as fast OR as well (ie: result in as smooth an edge) as the 8K) So maybe some of the cheaper barber hones were 4K's...

pps: Barber hones are no longer made. Swaty is one of the ones most recommended. I think the 8K + Cro Ox strop will work just fine.