Thread: Significant or not?

I have in my possession 3 straight razors, a Dovo Bismark, a Dovo Prima Klang and a Tuckmar Pino. I got the two Dovos from the same well known shop and the Tuckmar from an other one.

When I do a hanging hair test the Dovos fail and the Pino pass easily. I was wondering if this test is any significant. I do get better shave from the Tuckmar, but is it because of a better sharpening or because it is a better shaver.

I would like to ear you thoughts on that.


Many thanks.

Guero,

The significance of the hanging hair test (HHT) has beeen discussed at length here at SRP.

It seems the concensus is that it is the shave that is the ultimate test, and if your razors shave well that is all that matters.

As I have a 'high & tight' haircut, the only hair about the house is my wifes very, very fine hair.

Very few of my razors pass the HHT with her hair, but they all shave great

Don't worry about the HHT !

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

+1 to Russ. I use my girlfriends hair for an HHT. However, the test needs to be calibrated. If you honed the razors, and it popped one of your hairs but didn't shave well, the bench mark for your HHT test is: "when it pops my hair, I need to spend a bit more time on the hones". My girlfriends hair is very fine, so my calibration is as such: "when I can pop one of her hairs, I'm ready for a shave test, and 95% of the time the razor is finished".

If I gave the razor to another member, who had different hair and tried the HHT, it would mean very little to him/her because there is no benchmark or criteria for it's success with that person.

Lather up and shave. That will surely tell you more.

Hope this helps.

So the baseline is don’t bother too much with that test.

But how do you define if a great or bad shave comes from the razor itself or from the sharpening?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Guero

So the baseline is don’t bother too much with that test.

But how do you define if a great or bad shave comes from the razor itself or from the sharpening?

Thanks.

If it isn't on the "razors to avoid" list in the SRP Wiki beginner's guide it ought to have the potential to be a fine shaver. The honing and stropping determine the condition of the shaving edge. The end user's maintenance of the edge determines how long the razor will shave well before it needs some attention in the way of a touch up or rehoning. Some steels, heat treating , and/or grind undoubtedly have something to do with the equation. For those of us who have multiple razors we may perceive one or another being 'better' than the other. The important thing is that they do the job. If one doesn't it can generally be dialed in with honing, stropping, paste ..... if the end user knows what they are doing. Alternatively sending it out is another option.

The shave test is not a test. It is the goal of straight shaving. It would be beneficial to have an actual sharpness test that can be done before the shave. There are at least three of these, the TNT, helpful in setting bevels, the TPT to assess sharpness later in the honing progression, and the HHT. The problem is that there really is no "the HHT".

It is possible to learn through experimentation and practice using many types of hairs when a blade is getting to the point where it might be shave ready. This is a very individual matter that must be customized by the user with consideration of what hairs he is experimenting with and how the results translate to the shave he will get from the blade. Even that is specific to the individual because each person's beard is different and the results achieved are relative to that beard.

I keep a collection of various hairs around for testing, and I use them as I hone. These hairs are different lengths, different stiffnesses, coarseness and colors. I use them only to see whether I'm making progress as I hone. For example, my honing usually does not pass the HHT the way I employ it until I get to 12K and can usually pass (depending upon the specific hair I employ) at 16K. Where I see the most dramatic results however is during stropping. I can take a blade off 16K that won't even tug on the hair I am using but 30/50 laps on linen/leather later it is cutting the hair. Then I can use more delicate hairs as I continue to hone to see if I am improving the edge. When I am getting consistent results using the test the way I have individualized it, then I have a reasonable chance of getting the shave I want. I don't worry about hair "popping" off my blade. As sharpness increases, I will see no tugging on the blade, then some tugging, then, finally, the hair will be cut.

Doing this is NOT an objective test of shave readiness, of course. Testing an unknown razor on an unknown hair will tell the tester absolutely nothing and is a waste of time. That is why the HHT is referred to here as no more than a parlor trick, and why most usages of it referenced here fail "the HHT". That is because in reality there is no HHT.

But during honing, as one gets closer and closer to shave readiness, it is helpful to have a way to gauge progress and also to know when enough has been done prior to shaving with the blade. The shave is the ultimate criterion for sharpness, but because one can only shave so much, something like the HHT we read about can be beneficial during honing and prior to shaving. Testing hairs on the blade to assess sharpness isn't objective but it is also not worthless. Instead it is highly customizable, clearly not objective or universalizable and must be individualized to have any meaning at all. A lot of work has to be put in to make it work. Without that work, practice and experimentation with it, it really is just a parlor trick.

Originally Posted by Guero

But how do you define if a great or bad shave comes from the razor itself or from the sharpening?

You have to eliminate the sharpening as a variable. So I get both razors sharpened really well and then I know which one is better

Originally Posted by Guero

So the baseline is don’t bother too much with that test.

But how do you define if a great or bad shave comes from the razor itself or from the sharpening?

Thanks.

+1 to Jimmy's reply. He makes a very valid point about the "do not use" razors. If your razor is not on that list (and yours are not), then getting a comfortable shave should not be a problem. Dovo's IME are great shavers. So let assume that we can rule out the razor brand. Now your comfortable shave will be determined by two main factors: The edge of the razor, and your shaving technique. Again, assuming your technique is good, then we can turn to the sharpening. Likewise, if you sent that razor out to a reputable honemeister for maintenance and your shaves are less than stellar, we need to look at your technique.

I believe that the goal of straight shaving is a comfortable, irritation free shave. In order to do this, I need to "test" during the honing process. I use the methods mentioned by Ace (TNT, TPT), and following an HHT of my calibration, I shave test. It's not a complete shave. It's usually one or two strokes on different areas of my beard, and if there is any discomfort I stop immediately and put the razor back into the "honing pile" with a mental note of what needs to be done next.

As Jimmy also stated, for those who have many different razors, each one has it's own personality on your skin. You can most definitely feel the difference as you shave, which causes many of us to quantify these razors as "good, better, my best shaver".

I'd love to write more, but I'll be late for work.