Thread: Too much? Too little? Or just impatient?

I've done some touch-ups on razors that have become a little dull but this is my first real attempt at honing a very dull razor. I bought a New England razor some time ago that wouldn't cut butter and today, I figured it's time to start working on it. Having read many times, the importance of setting the bevel first, I gave it about half an hour on a 1200 grit stone and then tried to pop some arm hairs. They bent over and sprang back up. Another fifteen minutes and I tried again. Same results. After a full hour of honing, my arm hairs are laughing at me. I thought I'd get some exper advice before ruining it. I don't think my technique is bad. Both the edge and the spine are flat on the stone. I'm using moderate pressure. I soaked the stone for about 20 minutes and add water when it stops pushing water in front of the blade. Is it possible that I've overhoned? Should I be using light to no pressure, as with stropping? Heavy pressure? Or do I simply need to keep on honing and be more patient? Any help would be appreciated.

What kind of stone are you using?

I have had some razors that were absolute bears to hone. One in particular was an old wade & butcher that absolutely would not budge. I used my microscope on it several times, and it looked fine, but it would not cut anything. In desperation, I checked the actual edge under the microscope. (turned the edge pointing up into the microscope). Turned out I had set the bevel all right - it was fairly even, went all the way out, looked like I had hit clean steel all the way - but it just did not meet. From the side it looked fine, from the top I could clearly see that there was a flat, even strip of steel in stead of the two edges meeting. Flat as a pancake (albeit a very very thin one). No wonder it would not cut hair. Back to the hones it had to go.
I am not saying this is the case with your razor, but you did describe it as "very dull".
If your honing developed burr that you did not remove it would not cut either. To check, gently push with your fingernail from the spine and out the edge, not along the edge but 90 degrees to it. If there is overhoning, or burr, you should be able to feel it with your nail as it would give a little resistance. It generally would be on only one side, so check them both.
Pressurewise, it sounds just about like what I do. A heavier grind, like a wedge, can take a little more pressure, while a full hollow will not because pressure will just flex the blade and you will end up with an uneven edge.
If you have not already, be sure to check out the wiki on honing - there is a lot of helpful info in there. There also are some great honing videos that may help solve your problems.
I'm sure some of the more experienced guys will chip in shortly.
Best of luck.

Originally Posted by Danricgro

What kind of stone are you using?

Sorry I can't be more specific. I bought it quite a while ago from HNSB and can't remember the brand. The 8000 side has been great. As I said, it's my first try with the 1200.

Originally Posted by str8fencer

I have had some razors that were absolute bears to hone. One in particular was an old wade & butcher that absolutely would not budge. I used my microscope on it several times, and it looked fine, but it would not cut anything. In desperation, I checked the actual edge under the microscope. (turned the edge pointing up into the microscope). Turned out I had set the bevel all right - it was fairly even, went all the way out, looked like I had hit clean steel all the way - but it just did not meet. From the side it looked fine, from the top I could clearly see that there was a flat, even strip of steel in stead of the two edges meeting. Flat as a pancake (albeit a very very thin one). No wonder it would not cut hair. Back to the hones it had to go.
I am not saying this is the case with your razor, but you did describe it as "very dull".
If your honing developed burr that you did not remove it would not cut either. To check, gently push with your fingernail from the spine and out the edge, not along the edge but 90 degrees to it. If there is overhoning, or burr, you should be able to feel it with your nail as it would give a little resistance. It generally would be on only one side, so check them both.
Pressurewise, it sounds just about like what I do. A heavier grind, like a wedge, can take a little more pressure, while a full hollow will not because pressure will just flex the blade and you will end up with an uneven edge.
If you have not already, be sure to check out the wiki on honing - there is a lot of helpful info in there. There also are some great honing videos that may help solve your problems.
I'm sure some of the more experienced guys will chip in shortly.
Best of luck.

Good advice here. Bear in mind that vintage razors can take more than 1 hour on a 1200 to restore the edge & some form of magnification can help you assess if corrosion or other factors are are involved.

Just a quick thought:
Is your 1200 side of the stone recently lapped?
I'm just thinking that if your stone is glazed it won't cut much at all..
Have you seen your water turn grey/black with steel particles at all?

1 hour of honing on a 1200 stone should definitely remowe quite a lot of steel.
You could also try to build some slurry on it to see if that speed things up a bit.

Good luck,