Thread: New coticule - to unicot or not to unicot?

Originally Posted by Bbr6704

I also use a coticule, and i'd told you you should try the Dilucot instead of the unicot... You can find this method on www.coticule.be, in the razor sharping academy.

You won't use any tape, will get a better bevel, and a better edge when mastered.

I think, IMHO, that a decent razor should never meet tape, and a decent honer should never use tape, to keep the correct angle on your edge, and keep you razor longer...

There is absolutely no difference between a perfect dilucot edge, and a perfect unicot edge. The difference is, that unicot is much easier in the beginning, and it is faster. So in the end, unicot gives much more success for a beginner, much faster. After it you can learn the dilucot if you want, but it isn't necessary.

For me honewear is simply put ugly, so I tape every razor I hone.

I think I will never understand the "taping" method... I mean, it's not, IMHO a good way to keep a razor in good shape, cause you change the edge angle, and of course, if that's not important when a razor is new (only a very minor angle change), it becomes more important when you've honed your razor several times, or if you had a chick on the blade : the more steel you remove, the more your angle will be changed...

Of course, I presume the impact is less important if you only hone rarely, for maintainig your razor in good shape.

But IMHO I prefer a razor with honewear but with a correct bevel and edge, than a spine with no honewear but with a modified edge... (Of course that's my personnal opinion).

Originally Posted by Bbr6704

I think I will never understand the "taping" method... I mean, it's not, IMHO a good way to keep a razor in good shape, cause you change the edge angle, and of course, if that's not important when a razor is new (only a very minor angle change), it becomes more important when you've honed your razor several times, or if you had a chick on the blade : the more steel you remove, the more your angle will be changed...

Of course, I presume the impact is less important if you only hone rarely, for maintainig your razor in good shape.

But IMHO I prefer a razor with honewear but with a correct bevel and edge, than a spine with no honewear but with a modified edge... (Of course that's my personnal opinion).

Well actually, the spine and edge will wear at different rates so your bevel angle changes slightly whether or not you tape. Probably wouldn't matter enough either way to make a shaving difference. So tape users do as you like, non-tape users do what you like. And everyone have a wonderful day!

Originally Posted by porridgeorange

Well actually, the spine and edge will wear at different rates so your bevel angle changes slightly whether or not you tape. Probably wouldn't matter enough either way to make a shaving difference. So tape users do as you like, non-tape users do what you like. And everyone have a wonderful day!

+1

I am cmpletely on your side.

Originally Posted by Bbr6704

I think, IMHO, that a decent razor should never meet tape, and a decent honer should never use tape, to keep the correct angle on your edge, and keep you razor longer...

To tape or not, in every case razor will overlive us.
Also, reverting from taping to untaping blade is very easy (less than 5 minutes is enough to revert it).

Sorry guys, and I am not picking on this cot business that has been heavily popularized, but basically whether you cot it or whether you do the one stone honing routine with circles, we are ending up with pretty much the same result so long as we either have a razor in good condition or we set the bevel first. I don't believe in taping or dulling the razor and have found that the one stone honing method works pretty well on all naturals and that it even can work on something as simple as the barber hone.

Have fun,

Lynn

I just recently purchased a coticule for a number of reasons, not at all limited to:
my nortons were exhibiting a tendency to gum up with crud, swarf, whatever you want to call it, and they needed to be lapped and/or cleaned with some regularity. YMMV. I used sandpaper and a countertop for this for two years but grew tired of that. Then I bought a rather expensive (in my opinion) DMT plate for lapping which was (in my opinion) quickly degraded by my Norton set and rendered all but totally useless.

I like the idea of having one stone to do much of my honing work. I also like the idea of the challenge that it's sure to bring me. I also really like the notion of not lapping a stone and/or stone set each time I want to hone a razor.

Perhaps other stones exhibit the same one-stone qualities or abilities that coticules do, I don't doubt it. I appreciate all the work that has gone into developing the multitude of techniques I find on this site. However it seems to me that the coticule appears to be the best-documented one-stone approach out there. It also fits within my rather humble budget.

For what it's worth, I have no complaints regarding my Nortons (other than having to lap them at a rate that I personally consider burdensome) Your mileage may vary. I have no experience with other systems; the only other stone I have is the chinese woodcraft stone with which I am quite happy.

In any case I wish us both good luck in learning to achieve success with our coticules!

Originally Posted by Jimbo7

I just recently purchased a coticule for a number of reasons, not at all limited to:
my nortons were exhibiting a tendency to gum up with crud, swarf, whatever you want to call it, and they needed to be lapped and/or cleaned with some regularity. YMMV. I used sandpaper and a countertop for this for two years but grew tired of that. Then I bought a rather expensive (in my opinion) DMT plate for lapping which was (in my opinion) quickly degraded by my Norton set and rendered all but totally useless.

I like the idea of having one stone to do much of my honing work. I also like the idea of the challenge that it's sure to bring me. I also really like the notion of not lapping a stone and/or stone set each time I want to hone a razor.

Perhaps other stones exhibit the same one-stone qualities or abilities that coticules do, I don't doubt it. I appreciate all the work that has gone into developing the multitude of techniques I find on this site. However it seems to me that the coticule appears to be the best-documented one-stone approach out there. It also fits within my rather humble budget.

For what it's worth, I have no complaints regarding my Nortons (other than having to lap them at a rate that I personally consider burdensome) Your mileage may vary. I have no experience with other systems; the only other stone I have is the chinese woodcraft stone with which I am quite happy.

In any case I wish us both good luck in learning to achieve success with our coticules!

Next......................

Originally Posted by Lynn

Sorry guys, and I am not picking on this cot business that has been heavily popularized, but basically whether you cot it or whether you do the one stone honing routine with circles, we are ending up with pretty much the same result so long as we either have a razor in good condition or we set the bevel first. I don't believe in taping or dulling the razor and have found that the one stone honing method works pretty well on all naturals and that it even can work on something as simple as the barber hone.

Have fun,

Lynn

Lynn,
I realize that doing one stone honing on a barber hone would not be the most efficient way to get to a sharp edge...but say I had the time and will to do so. What sort of stroke would be useful? Could I do a ton of circles? And also assuming I'm not attempting to use slurry on a barber hone would the edge be at its optimal once the bevel is set (just like if it had been refreshed)? These might all be ridiculous questions so feel free to say so... really appreciate the input.

Hi Ben,

Actually, I did the one hone method on a barber hone just to see if I could and it worked. I was pretty amazed and then tried it on a couple. My best results have come off my old Swaty. I used a plain Japan Woodworker Nagura and a Coticule rubbing stone for slurry. The barber hones still work very well for refreshing, but I had to try them when I was playing around with the one hone method on Cotcules, Charnley Forest, Escher, Chinese 12K and a bunch of Japanese Naturals. Actually, one of the Coticule regulars tried to hone a razor using the barber hone and the one stone method and found that it worked for him as well.

The basic premise is to start with a blade in good condition or one that has had the bevel set.

With heavy slurry, you do 40 circles each way with pressure followed by 10-15 X strokes.
Follow with medium slurry and do 40 circles each way with pressure each way and then do 40 circles each way with no pressure followed by 5-10 X strokes and no pressure.
Next, you use a light slurry and do 10-15 (I generally use 10) no pressure X strokes and then with no slurry and water only do 10-15 more no pressure X strokes.
Finally, you can either strop and test shave or do 10 no pressure X strokes on .5 diamond or Chromium Oxide followed by the regular stropping and testing.
This is a can do method with consistency much in line with the Cot methods. I normally get the razor shaving 7 times out of ten without have to repeat all or any portion of the process. There is no question that these methods can work.

At the end of the day there is no magic stone or method that is the best for everyone and personal preferences always come into play both with process and different stones. Not unlike our preferences with razors.

I still use a Naniwa Chosera followed by the Norton 4K/8K every day with the variable being what finishing stone I am using. I believe that the Naniwa Super Stone is the most consistent stone for me and I get my best results following the finishing stone with .5 diamond spray on felt. Others simply use the finishing stone. I am totally convinced that the method and stones that work best for you are the best, but there really is no best of the best no matter how much we choose to glorify or promote any one method or stone. I suspect that there will always also be something new to try out in both arenas that may work better for us. The search continues.......

Glen has some videos out I believe with a one stone method similar to what I described if you ever want to watch it. I may have to make a couple video's of the method I use that was described above.

I have used a few Coticule stones for the past 8 years and would say that they are fine stones. They will work and produce good results. They are not the best stones in my opinion and they are not the only stones out there no matter how much they get promoted. It would always be one of several hones that I would and do recommend to people depending on the individual's needs and objectives.

Have fun,

Lynn