Thread: Question for JimR: "False Edge" definition...

so how much should i do? 80 degrees or 50 degrees
damn i think ill skip this its nice to shave without that aswell. maybe you could ask him?

Originally Posted by sicknote

so how much should i do? 80 degrees or 50 degrees
damn i think ill skip this its nice to shave without that aswell. maybe you could ask him?

One danger of transalting classic text by renouned autors, is that people start blindly follow what the text says.
If you can produce a perfectly fine shaving edge, why would you need a microbevel in the first place?
you can create the microbevvel if you really want to by adding 1 or 2 layers fo tape to the spine.

i dont follow everything whats in there.
just wanna test this

Originally Posted by mainaman

One danger of transalting classic text by renouned autors, is that people start blindly follow what the text says.
If you can produce a perfectly fine shaving edge, why would you need a microbevel in the first place?
you can create the microbevvel if you really want to by adding 1 or 2 layers fo tape to the spine.

I'll second this.

We are truly grateful for Jim's hard work in producing this for us but remember there is a certain amount of interpretation involved in the translation so sometimes you have to surmise what the original intent was. If what you are doing works well I wouldn't be radically changing my routine based on something we may not be so sure of.

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I'll second this.

We are truly grateful for Jim's hard work in producing this for us but remember there is a certain amount of interpretation involved in the translation so sometimes you have to surmise what the original intent was. If what you are doing works well I wouldn't be radically changing my routine based on something we may not be so sure of.

This is exactly right. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what he meant--but what you read is what he said.

i just want to tyrout everything to find MY perfect routine. (if i didnt have this allready). Jims translation is great!!! thank you again for this. funny thing is that i do the stropping like he wrote there without knowing that he wrote it like this .
same is with chrox, though im not using this mysterious hone but a strop.

FYI,

I grabbed a strop one of my friend's gave me, which is made out of cow hide he found a Tandy's.

I sanded it down, and rubbed it just like the text said. It got real shinny, like the text said. I stropped my razor. The bevel became a perfect miror. I'll shave tomorrow & let you know if it's any different than normal.

I took my razor out for a test drive after trying the shinny strop.

I just got the most darn comfortable shave ever. SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH.

THank you so much for this interesting information Jim !!

Originally Posted by JimR

Thanks very much for the kind words.

I think what Stefan says is mostly the truth, but I still am not sure. To be honest, I still have yet to find any serrations left by a natural Japanese hone. I wonder if the False edge refers to a phenomenon caused by the enormous amounts of pressure he uses when honing Kamisori.

Wow, Jim, I just read this (downloaded from a blog). I missed the annoucment on SRP if there was one, but I'm glad PA23 asked the question and made me curious.

Originally Posted by PA23-250

First of all, good on 'ya for translating "Honing Razors & Nihonkamisori"! Amazing to read that document! Big thanks are in order!

I'm curious about a phrase Iwasaki says a lot: the "false edge". He clearly differentiates it from a standard wire edge, so it seems like it would be something else. It sounds almost like super-fine microchipping or some kind of micro-burr, but I have no idea, really. Am I warm or miles off?

You are right ... this section seems odd to us with modern hones.

He is working with old school Japanese steel and natural hones (Jnats) and
this seems to define what he is doing.

Old school steel, if I can coin a phrase, can be very hard. Woodworker
tools from Japan and razors might be R62 or perhaps harder. Without the backing
of soft mild steel/iron they would be too fragile/brittle to use. Most razors
are not this hard.

Natural hones have minerals softer than modern man made hones.
While the grit starts out less uniform it breaks down into a fine abrasive.

Now some serious guessing.
Limiting the final honing to a couple of millimeters would build, concentrate
and localize a micro fine slurry and even cause a mini dip in the hone
that would result in a micro fine micro bevel as the edge climbs
out of it.

How one might obtain that same fine edge with modern tools
might take a microscope and some experimenting. And in
the end a shave test.

Do a web search for "Popular Science Oct 1931" razors.
this was the golden age of optical microscopes and razors
of all types...... There are some classic microscope images
that tell a lot.

The 2 mm strokes reminded me that there is
another place to look. Look for older "American Optical" literature on
honing microtome blades/knives. The final honing was done with
chalk on glass by vibrating the glass under the razor/microtome
blade. FWIW there was a comment elsewhere that this edge
was not fun to shave with, it would slice anything put in
front of it -- i.e. my definition of a harsh edge.