X pattern or Straight Down Poll

[JLStorm]

Another post made me remember that I have been debating a 2" vs 3" norton for a while. The only reason I can see for getting the 3" is because I can hone straight down instead of the need to use the X pattern (for most of my razors at least)

Without starting a war here, which method do you believe gives you the best results with disregard to the type of razor or type of steel.

[FiReSTaRT]

I wish I got a 2" Norton right off the bat. I keep worrying about overhoning the toe with this 3" monstrosity. I'll probably get the 2" eventually and sell this one, but I am not that financially fluid atm.

[Kees]

I wish I got a 2" Norton right off the bat. I keep worrying about overhoning the toe with this 3" monstrosity. I'll probably get the 2" eventually and sell this one, but I am not that financially fluid atm.

I had a similar problem with overhoning the heel. Joe Lerch suggested putting the fingers of the hand that does not hold the handle on the spine of the blade and guide it over the hone in the X-pattern. I use two or three fingers slightly spread apart. It worked for me.

[Kees]

As several guys have told you, with the wide hone you can do the entire edge at once by moving the blade straight down the stone with heel leading.

Since you're just starting out I also suggest you use two hands. Support the handle in one hand and use the index finger of that hand to move the blade. Use the index finger of the other hand to guide the blade and make sure that you that the tip isn't lifting. Don't press hard with those fingers justguide the blade and keep it in contact with the stone.

After you get some experience and can apply uniform pressure to the blade you can try other ways to hone. But the way I suggested should give you an even edge and will lead to success quickly.

Above in Joe's own words.

[FiReSTaRT]

The x-pattern on narrow hones is what eliminated that worry for me. Those Japanese slip-stones had to be held together with one hand to achieve a flat honing surface and they cut so slowly that they gave me lots of one-handed honing practice. The problem with using a wide stone with the X pattern is that the toe travels a longer distance over the hone than the heel does. A 2" wide hone gives you more control over this issue.

[xman]

I voted straight down even though I often use a slight X motion drawing only the heel off the hone. I do this because the heel naturally recieves more and even pressure being so close to the hand whereas the toe has less and more uneven pressure from that pressure diminishing slightly and tending to be less consistent further down the edge. This is why I'm not worried about over honing the tip. I believe good honing technique whether on a smaller or larger hone will deliver consistent results along the edge while bad technique on any stone can cause problems like warping or over wearing a specific part of the edge. At first blush you might think a 2" hone would put the belly of the edge on the stone longer than the heel or the tip and thus wear out the belly more. That's not necessarily true though. More has to do with how you controll the eveness of pressure along the edge. This is your primary concern and should be the focus of your attention. With the 2" hone, there's more to worry about what with part of the blade being off the hone at any time. The 3" hone give you the chance to make instant corrections in rolling pressure without worying about how far the edge is sitting on or off the hone which is why it is recommended for new honers. I'm sure a very experienced honer would have little or no trouble compensating on a 2" hone, but 3" is recommended for your first stone for good reason. I believe Lynn uses a 3".

X

[randydance062449]

Just my two cents here.

The best overall hone for the beginner is probably the 3".
That being said I have found that narrower hones definitely have their place in a persons honing tool kit. The size I like the best for a blade with a smile or warping or an uneven spine is approx1 1/4" or 1 1/2". I also vastly prefer single grit hones that are 1" thick or more for the same uses.

[Joe Lerch]

I wish I got a 2" Norton right off the bat. I keep worrying about overhoning the toe with this 3" monstrosity. I'll probably get the 2" eventually and sell this one, but I am not that financially fluid atm.

If you want to get another stone, fine, but this rationale doesn't make sense. This kind of uneven honing is more likely with a narrow. If you push across the stone carefully it can't happen.

Now, if you insist on the x-pattern, then yes, you will overhone the top part of the blade. That's because the further up a spot is on the blade, the more time it spends on the hone. But you wil have the same problem with a narrower hone unless it's width is less than half the blade length. In fact you'll be honing the middle of the blade the most, which eventually gives you a frown, the worst shape.

[FiReSTaRT]

When I was learning on 2" hones, I made a special effort to make sure that every part of the blade travels the same distance under the same pressure on the hone. Now it comes naturally to me. Since I have both options, here's what I do with a relatively dull blade:

1) 40 straight down passes with the heel leading on the N4k 3"
2) 30 straight down passes on the N8k
2.5) Now depending on where I am with the blade, I may do a few more passes on each, until I see that I am finally getting somerhere.
3) Then I take it to the Japanese 4k/8k slip-stones and do a variation of an x-pattern pyramid a couple of times. I do these until the razor is shave ready, usually 2-3.
4) I take them back to the 8k norton and do a few passes but this time at x-pattern, just to give the edge a final polish, as I found N8k to be a bit finer than the Japanese 8k. I do this with a VERY light pressure, so I remove almost no metal.
5) Finally I MAY give it a few final passes on the Coticule, but I haven't noticed a marked improvement over the N8k, so I am a bit disinclined to go trough this step these days.

When I am refreshing a blade, I just do a couple of x-passes on the N8k. However every 3rd refreshment, I do a an actual pyramid on the Japanese stones just to keep the edge from developing a frown. They are slow cutters, so they don't remove much metal but they remove enough to keep the edge straight.

[Joe Lerch]

When I was learning on 2" hones, I made a special effort to make sure that every part of the blade travels the same distance under the same pressure on the hone. Now it comes naturally to me. Since I have both options, here's what I do with a relatively dull blade:

1) 40 straight down passes with the heel leading on the N4k 3"
2) 30 straight down passes on the N8k
2.5) Now depending on where I am with the blade, I may do a few more passes on each, until I see that I am finally getting somerhere.
3) Then I take it to the Japanese 4k/8k slip-stones and do a variation of an x-pattern pyramid a couple of times. I do these until the razor is shave ready, usually 2-3.
4) I take them back to the 8k norton and do a few passes but this time at x-pattern, just to give the edge a final polish, as I found N8k to be a bit finer than the Japanese 8k. I do this with a VERY light pressure, so I remove almost no metal.
5) Finally I MAY give it a few final passes on the Coticule, but I haven't noticed a marked improvement over the N8k, so I am a bit disinclined to go trough this step these days.

When I am refreshing a blade, I just do a couple of x-passes on the N8k. However every 3rd refreshment, I do a an actual pyramid on the Japanese stones just to keep the edge from developing a frown. They are slow cutters, so they don't remove much metal but they remove enough to keep the edge straight.

I refresh an edge frequently (whenever stropping doesn't restore its keenness) with a very fine hone (10-12K), like a Swaty. It's only 3-5 swipes. This keeps the razor going for a long time without honing. I have some that have gone over a year. But I do have a rather large rotation.