Thread: X pattern or Straight Down Poll

When I was learning on 2" hones, I made a special effort to make sure that every part of the blade travels the same distance under the same pressure on the hone. Now it comes naturally to me. Since I have both options, here's what I do with a relatively dull blade:

1) 40 straight down passes with the heel leading on the N4k 3"
2) 30 straight down passes on the N8k
2.5) Now depending on where I am with the blade, I may do a few more passes on each, until I see that I am finally getting somerhere.
3) Then I take it to the Japanese 4k/8k slip-stones and do a variation of an x-pattern pyramid a couple of times. I do these until the razor is shave ready, usually 2-3.
4) I take them back to the 8k norton and do a few passes but this time at x-pattern, just to give the edge a final polish, as I found N8k to be a bit finer than the Japanese 8k. I do this with a VERY light pressure, so I remove almost no metal.
5) Finally I MAY give it a few final passes on the Coticule, but I haven't noticed a marked improvement over the N8k, so I am a bit disinclined to go trough this step these days.

When I am refreshing a blade, I just do a couple of x-passes on the N8k. However every 3rd refreshment, I do a an actual pyramid on the Japanese stones just to keep the edge from developing a frown. They are slow cutters, so they don't remove much metal but they remove enough to keep the edge straight.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

When I was learning on 2" hones, I made a special effort to make sure that every part of the blade travels the same distance under the same pressure on the hone. Now it comes naturally to me. Since I have both options, here's what I do with a relatively dull blade:

1) 40 straight down passes with the heel leading on the N4k 3"
2) 30 straight down passes on the N8k
2.5) Now depending on where I am with the blade, I may do a few more passes on each, until I see that I am finally getting somerhere.
3) Then I take it to the Japanese 4k/8k slip-stones and do a variation of an x-pattern pyramid a couple of times. I do these until the razor is shave ready, usually 2-3.
4) I take them back to the 8k norton and do a few passes but this time at x-pattern, just to give the edge a final polish, as I found N8k to be a bit finer than the Japanese 8k. I do this with a VERY light pressure, so I remove almost no metal.
5) Finally I MAY give it a few final passes on the Coticule, but I haven't noticed a marked improvement over the N8k, so I am a bit disinclined to go trough this step these days.

When I am refreshing a blade, I just do a couple of x-passes on the N8k. However every 3rd refreshment, I do a an actual pyramid on the Japanese stones just to keep the edge from developing a frown. They are slow cutters, so they don't remove much metal but they remove enough to keep the edge straight.

I refresh an edge frequently (whenever stropping doesn't restore its keenness) with a very fine hone (10-12K), like a Swaty. It's only 3-5 swipes. This keeps the razor going for a long time without honing. I have some that have gone over a year. But I do have a rather large rotation.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

I refresh an edge frequently (whenever stropping doesn't restore its keenness) with a very fine hone (10-12K), like a Swaty. It's only 3-5 swipes. This keeps the razor going for a long time without honing. I have some that have gone over a year. But I do have a rather large rotation.

What's the difference between honing and refreshing?

Refreshing the edge is just removing a bit of metal with a fine hone to get it to cut nicely again. However, after a while that makes the bevel deteriorate...

That's when you take it back to rougher (4/8k) hones to re-establish it. A single pyramid will usually do the trick and then some. Obviously it removes more metal than a refreshment.

Joe, my rotation is rather smaller than yours. Currently at 6, but for a long time I only had 2 in my rotation, so I had to do it more frequently. Every 60 shaves or so, with refreshing both blades after about 20 shaves combined. These are aproximate as I also refresh the edge as it deteriorates, whether it's after 7 or 12 shaves, but I do try to do it uniformly as it's a time saver.

Originally Posted by Kees

What's the difference between honing and refreshing?

Refreshing is honing of course, but it's just a few quick swipes on a fine hone to restore keenness when the razor starts to pull a little. It allows you to keep the razor in top shaving condition all the time, working on it for an instant, with an indefinite time between real honing sessions.

Draw the line where you want, but I would look at a honing session as any time you specifically undertake to do significant work on a razor. I do the refreshing while I'm shaving, at the sink. It's done like stropping before or in the middle of a shave, depending on need.

Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Refreshing the edge is just removing a bit of metal with a fine hone to get it to cut nicely again. However, after a while that makes the bevel deteriorate...

This is what I'm not so sure about now. I'm thinking that maybe you really are doing the same thing as honing periodically but just spreading it out. Logically, if the refreshing over a year took off the same amount of material as honing 4 times a year, you would be at the same point at the end of the year. The difference is that with refreshing you always have the best edge.

I now have a total of about 125 razors. About 25 I bought new and had to do minimum or no honing. Another 15 or so I bought used but shave ready. I'd say 85-90 I bought used and restored. Maybe 10 of them are wasted, the rest being shavable. This has all been over the last 18 months, or so. I haven't had to hone or re-hone any of those razors. I'm guessing that I've used my favorites 40 times.

I would love to do an experiment with one razor, but I don't want to give up the other razors for that period of time.

Originally Posted by Joe Lerch

This is what I'm not so sure about now. I'm thinking that maybe you really are doing the same thing as honing periodically but just spreading it out. Logically, if the refreshing over a year took off the same amount of material as honing 4 times a year, you would be at the same point at the end of the year. The difference is that with refreshing you always have the best edge.

I now have a total of about 125 razors. About 25 I bought new and had to do minimum or no honing. Another 15 or so I bought used but shave ready. I'd say 85-90 I bought used and restored. Maybe 10 of them are wasted, the rest being shavable. This has all been over the last 18 months, or so. I haven't had to hone or re-hone any of those razors. I'm guessing that I've used my favorites 40 times.

I would love to do an experiment with one razor, but I don't want to give up the other razors for that period of time.

I'm with Joe on this. I don't see how refreshing an edge (if done properly) could cause the bevel to deteriorate. If you are honing improperly, you can certainly damage the edge. If your refreshing of the edge does not bring it back to the initial post honing condition and you continue to shave, refresh, shave, refresh...and with each iteration you never bring the edge back to the initial point where it is truely keen, then you are just accepting a progressively less sharp razor. However, even if this is the case, it is the shaving, not the refreshing that is causing a deterioration in the shaving edge.

All of this of course, assumes I've understood you correctly... ...highly unlikely as I've not slept in three days.

Ed

Just my two cents here.

The best overall hone for the beginner is probably the 3".
That being said I have found that narrower hones definitely have their place in a persons honing tool kit. The size I like the best for a blade with a smile or warping or an uneven spine is approx1 1/4" or 1 1/2". I also vastly prefer single grit hones that are 1" thick or more for the same uses.