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Thread: What consitutes being a "honemiester"??

  1. #21
    Heat it and beat it Bruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan82 View Post
    I seem to recall former member Robin, aka BeBerlin, having a hard time dealing with the title "honemeister". For those that did not know him he's from Germany, and he took the word "meister" very seriously. But as it has been noted several times in this thread already, the term was originally an honorary title and should not be taken as an official designation or recognized trade.
    Yep.

    Meister has a well defined meaning in Germany (and several other countries). It should not be used frivolously.
    The term was an affectionate label once applied to Lynn by someone, and it stuck. It was never meant to be used as a title with a well defined meaning. People using it as such are missing the point by a wide margin.

    There was talk about an accreditation program some time ago. If you search for them you'll find the discussions.
    The idea died because I did not want it to be SRP accreditation for 2 big reasons. First of all, in order to stand a chance to become widely accepted, standards should be set by a panel of experts from various backgrounds. Not just SRP. There were also legal concerns due to various issues that had the posibility of biting us in the ass. And we (staff and owners) are still unpaid volunteers, so not willing to take the risks, costs and headaches.

    I still think it would be an interesting idea, but not here.
    Due to the various issues, it would have to be an independent body. Kinda like ISO or ANSI, but on a smaller scale.
    Anyway, I blocked it from being an SRP initiative, and noone wanted to go through the effort of starting an independent effort, and the idea died with that.
    Last edited by Bruno; 07-21-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member blabbermouth JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    IIRC at the time the 'accreditation program' was being discussed Lynn posted,"I know how to hone." Seems like a given but I think his point was that he didn't need anyone to validate his skills beyond himself and his many satisfied customers. At the time this was being kicked around I was a bit anxious about it because I hadn't yet determined if I knew how to hone successfully.

    Since then I can say I know that I know how to hone. I am my own customer and 9 times out of 10 I'm satisfied with my results. When I am not I go back to the rocks. Happens sometimes with some razors. So if a guy is satisfied with his own honing for himself he won't need anymore credit than that. If he is one of those who offers honing services for $ he will know soon enough whether his honing is satisfactory. Repeat customers speak volumes no matter what they call you.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member blabbermouth Joed's Avatar
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    Honemeister is a term that is very liberality used in the shaving community. To those of us that really know, there can be only one honemeister and that is Lynn. If someone refers to themselves as one run away. If someone calls another person a honemeister I would consider their use of the term as out of place and may even consider their knowledge of the term as limited at best. When any one person or item outshines all the others there will always be others trying to share the light. Some may come close and others are miles apart but in the end there will always be one that bests all the others. We straight razor users refer to that person as 'the' honemeister. There is only one.
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  4. #24
    Heat it and beat it Bruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHAD View Post
    IIRC at the time the 'accreditation program' was being discussed Lynn posted,"I know how to hone." Seems like a given but I think his point was that he didn't need anyone to validate his skills beyond himself and his many satisfied customers. At the time this was being kicked around I was a bit anxious about it because I hadn't yet determined if I knew how to hone successfully.
    That is besides the point. Of course Lynn knows how to hone. Noone doubts that. And Pretty much everyone in the online straight shaving community is aware in some way of Lynn's existence and reputation.

    The whole point of accreditation is to provide a way for an 'unknown' person to be able to present some credentials when dealing with edges. For example, if there were an accreditation program to determine honing ability, a relatively unknown person would be able to put up a razor for sale, and anyone reading the ad would be able to verify the accreditation with a simple mouseclick. And he would have some level of confidence that 'shaveready' means that you can shave with it, rather than 'cut paper'.

    Likewise, if such an accreditation existed, it would automatically gain usefulness if it was advertized with every sale, because buyers would learn to recognize it or look for it. And people would have a harder time to use the term 'shaveready'.

    It's like certification of USB interfaces and the use of the official USB logos on cables and equipment. Any Intel or Iomega USB device will function properly when plugged into your computer. This is like Lynn knowing how to hone. People know he can probably hone. The accreditation is useful for the gazillion of other manufacturers which you have never heard of and of which you have no way to assess their products without prior experience. But with every device, no matter the name, you can have a good level of confidence that it will work as advertized if it carries the official USB logos. Because the vendor is certified by the USB standards committee.

    That is the purpose of accreditation.

    This exists, and is used on a daily basis for electric and gas infrastructure workers, comapnies working with sensitive or financial data, credit card companies, building contractors, etc etc. There is no reason why such a thing would not work or be useful for something like edges.
    Last edited by Bruno; 07-21-2011 at 08:15 PM.
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    Senior Member Dllandry's Avatar
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    The way I heard it was that the title was actually bestowed in jest to Lynn. Come on Lynn tell us the story of honemister or maybe bigspender could write about the history of honemisters.

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    No mystery or jest at all. The late Ray Dupont started calling me "Honemeister" a long time ago and it simply stuck. He was the one to come up with the term. Going back to when the first forum was started in 2000, there really was only one guy doing honing nation wide that was known of in addition to a few of the knife and scissor shops using wheels and belts. The Journey continues to be fun.

    All the best,

    Lynn

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  8. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
    T
    The whole point of accreditation is to provide a way for an 'unknown' person to be able to present some credentials when dealing with edges. [snip]

    That is the purpose of accreditation.

    This exists, and is used on a daily basis for electric and gas infrastructure workers, comapnies working with sensitive or financial data, credit card companies, building contractors, etc etc. There is no reason why such a thing would not work or be useful for something like edges.
    The problem then is enforcement. Unscrupulous people will see 'ninja make things sharperer type person' or whatever you may want to call it and then start including that description in their ebay listing etc.
    Most of us know that 'shave ready' on ebay has come to mean exactly nothing unless you personally know/know of the vendor.

    Very sensible decision not to proceed down that path as volunteers.

  9. #28
    Heat it and beat it Bruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauly View Post
    The problem then is enforcement. Unscrupulous people will see 'ninja make things sharperer type person' or whatever you may want to call it and then start including that description in their ebay listing etc.
    Most of us know that 'shave ready' on ebay has come to mean exactly nothing unless you personally know/know of the vendor.

    Very sensible decision not to proceed down that path as volunteers.
    Precisely.
    Accreditation can be a very useful thing. But it only works if enough aulified people care to help make it happen.
    And then you also need an organization to deal with legal issues, enforcement, money, auditing, etc.
    Running it as volunteers, or as part of a site like SRP is a recipe for disaster.
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  10. #29
    Little Bear richmondesi's Avatar
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    Bruno,

    Would you mind sharing some insight into what types of legal issues you are referring to? I'm not being argumentative, at all, and I have no reason/inclination to want to push for some type of accreditation program in any form. I am however interested in knowing more about what specific pitfalls you're are referencing on an academic level.

    Thanks,

    Paul

  11. #30
    Senior Member LawsonStone's Avatar
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    Some time ago I came up with a few terms to describe the process of learning to hone, mainly in jest, but partly serious.

    Take this with a grain of salt, and with fresh batteries in your Acme® Irony Detector.

    "Honester" (pronounced "hone-ster" like "youngster") is somebody who has bought all the stones, sprays, strops and knows all about slurries and strokes, but actually has not yet succeeded in producing a shaving edge. Sincere, the honester is basically talking about it instead of actually doing it. Sincerely trying to learn, but still a bit of a poseur. But it's great fun.

    "Honist" is what I consider myself to be. A honest has sold off about half the hones he bought in the honester stage, can't find that spray stuff he bought, but has a set of stones that he actually uses to sharpen razors. A honest cruises eBay and elsewhere intentionally looking for razors that are NOT shave-ready so he can hone them. He might not actually shave with many of them. I have acquired over 50 razors, honed them all, and then when I learned how to hone better, re-honed them all. But the problem is...with 50+ razors, all honed nicely, I might not need to hone again for several years!

    So a "honist" is simply somebody who can happily hone razors to shave-ready, and maybe also do some modest restoration, i.e. hone a razor with a little bit of a frown, hone out a small chip, etc. A honist also hones razors for friends and newbies, but would be horrified a the idea of being paid to do it.

    I'd call a honemeister someone who can hone pretty much any razor they get handed. They can do almost any restoration work needed to bring an edge to shaving fitness (unless it's just beyond hope). They confidently charge for their services, and only very rarely to they get complaints. Their edges are used by honesters and honists as the standard by which they judge their own efforts. I have several razors honed by Knowne and Formidable Honemeisters on this board, and I keep those razors separate from the rest, only stropping them but leaving the edge as the honemeister set it. They are my standard.

    I thought I had another category, but I forgot it.

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