Thread: What consitutes being a "honemiester"??

Lawson! 'Good to see you. 'Fine reply as well.

The Honemeister loves to hone, and takes money for putting up w/ our ignorance

Sincere gratitude to each one that helps us learn. 'Can't say that enough.

I think people worry about this too much. It's understandable, especially when you are new and/or learning, but ultimately you realise the question is not "what is a honemeister and how do I become one?" but rather "can I get away with charging people for honing their razors?".

Actually, that's not quite as cynical (or perhaps stupid) as it sounds. SRP has a tried and tested way of producing quality professional honers. Who, after hanging out here for a few months (or less) has not heard of Lynn, Glen, Max et al? Word of mouth, from a trusted source, does the job for us. And how did these guys become "honemeisters"? Have a chat with them sometime and ask how long they've been doing it for, how much attention they pay to detail, how often they practice their skills, and you'll get the picture soon enough.

My suggestion would be to not worry about labels, and just get on with learning and practicing as hard as you can. It pays off and rewards itself.

James.

Originally Posted by richmondesi

Bruno,

Would you mind sharing some insight into what types of legal issues you are referring to? I'm not being argumentative, at all, and I have no reason/inclination to want to push for some type of accreditation program in any form. I am however interested in knowing more about what specific pitfalls you're are referencing on an academic level.

Thanks,

Paul

Sorry for the late reply. I missed your question.

Legal issues. Ok.
Suppose we were the ones doing this. First of all, chances are we'd have to incorporate. Because right now, we aren't. so any claims that would be made would have the potential to really hurt the owners, and possibly the admin (yours truly). From the little I know, mods are less vulnerable because it is understood that they don't call the shots. With an incroporation, the individuals are much better protected.

Second, we'd be dealing with money going back and forth, if only to cover expenses. That means official bookkeeping, IRS, and related annoyances.

Third, we'd be dealing with goods shipping back and forth. Loss of goods means insurance, and possibly claims. Ownership disputes, etc.

Fourth, people might not agree with their accreditation a) being denied, and b) being revoked. If this would end up costing them money (decrease in income, possible loss of reputation) they could sue. Again, headaches.

Fifth, we'd have to come up with licensing fees. As silly as it sounds, the corporation would have to be able to exist and pay for the lawyers (at a bare minimum) to keep paperwork and IRS filings in order every year, even if no new accreditiations would be made.

These are just the 5 first things that came to mind. There would be more.
We have thousands of members. The normal census statistics apply. Some of our (now ex) members have conned other members out of equipment and money, for mucho dollars. Some of our ex members have threatened us with legal actions. As much as I regret it, from where I am sitting, with the past years of SRP management under my belt, I really don't believe that noone would try to make life difficult for us in very bad ways.

It's not that it is impossible to deal with all these issues. But it would take up a lot of time and energy, which would take all of the fun out of this hobby. That is why I publicly said that I thought it was an interesting concept, but that it would not find a home here. I said it would be best if those interested would take it up as an independent project.

It's easy to say that something would be a great idea and why are we refusing? But few people take the time to sit down and think about all the things that can and will go wrong, and how we should deal with them.

We were criticized strongly by some for not doing this on top of already running this site, but it seems that they were not willing to do so either, since none of them did

Originally Posted by Jimbo

My suggestion would be to not worry about labels, and just get on with learning and practicing as hard as you can. It pays off and rewards itself.

Call me what you want to but don't call me late for dinner. Great feeling when you get to the point where you can hone your own razors and get DF shaves. That is what is important to me. Of course honing other people's razors is another kettle of fish but I don't mess with that. Keeping it fun with no expectations or deadlines.

Good words, Bruno. Truly wise. Besides, there are too many licensing programs. Sure, certify doctors and lawyers. But I find it hard to get too excited about licensing barbers, let alone "honemeisters."

Interesting. Thanks, Bruno. I think it's something that "could" be done, but I don't see much value personally. Continuing the academic side of this: would site "approved" vendors not open up some of the same possible areas of vulnerability? Again, I've not thought a lot about it, but those are real concerns. I guess the reason I ask is that Vendors have to be in "good standing" to stick around, and I guess I'm wondering if that is the same thing as an endorsement that opens up the site to possible liabilities under similar circumstances as what you described.

Thanks again, and if I'm boring anyone, tell me to drop it and I will. Like I said, I don't care one way or the other, but it's an interesting disussion (at least to me). Thanks

If I'm not mistaken membership and being in good standing gives an individual permissions, following board approval, without an implied endorsement.

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

If I'm not mistaken membership and being in good standing gives an individual permissions, following board approval, without an implied endorsement.

That's about it.

The difference in terms of headaches is that the vendor badge means nothing more than that person is running a business, is an active member of this site, and we know nothing that would make doing business with him a liability.

No money or goods change hands, we are not making statements as to the quality of the products or services, and noones reputation or income depend on the vendor badge. People may or may not agree with revoking or denying their vendor badge (or membership for that matter) but that is at our own discretion. There were no business transactions, no monetary incentives, and no rights inferred.

I don't think anybody doubts that there are other people on this forum besides Lynn, who can do a better job of honing than most razor owners or barbers. But it seems a pity the term has been allowed to spread more widely than it should, or should have been chosen to sound so specific. What was the matter with master-honer?

I agree accreditation here is impractical. Besides the difficulties mentioned, the intention can hardly be expected to involve sitting over a candidate and watching him do it. If he is looking for a false but maarketable reputation, he doesn't even need to have it done by someone else. Who is to say he isn't simply taking a day or two over his test piece, but will later take half an hour over the customer's?

Originally Posted by bharner

I'm a professional dullmeister. if you want to see what constitutes a honemeister, send me your razor. I'll dull it so well you'd swear somebody put a butter knife in scales. Then when you get it back try and shave with it. Then send it off to someone you think is might be a honemeister (or professional honer or the what not). If you can painlessly shave with it when you get it back from them, they might be a honemeister. Or a honemeister in training. Just saving up to buy that certificate.

It's about time you hung out your slate!!