Thread: I'm not sure how or when it happened

That layer of tape for just the final polish changes the angle by a small fraction of a degree, and just focuses the final hone's action on the final edge. With my hand lens I see a polish line about 1/4 the width of the bevel at most. It's a little bit like the magic marker test, a nice verification that my very last 10 laps did what I meant for them to do.

Originally Posted by tekbow

ah i understand, your saying that the angle at which the bevels meet is wider and therefore the edge won't be able to be as sharp? sorry, i misunderstood

Yes, that's my point. I've done secondary bevels when finishing and have had good luck with them. But I have to wonder whether the edge would have been even keener if I'd not added the tape and just polished the primary bevel. All in all, it really isn't much of a difference. But if that is the case, why create that small difference when all it does is technically make the bevel angle more obtuse (less acute)? When I've done it, I've also enjoyed the visual confirmation of those few final finishing strokes. The reality has to be, however, that I've created a secondary bevel that cannot logically be as sharp as the primary bevel I started with. I used to use secondary bevels when touching up a blade, but I've stopped doing it because the primary bevel is just as easy to touch up, and the results logically have to better.

I thought that I should add that I have had plenty of opportunity to employ secondary bevels. When I get a razor that has a tall bevel from using too much pressure while honing, from not using tape in the honing process, or one that's just been honed a lot, I use tape to create a secondary bevel. The tall bevels look ugly to me, and I don't want make them any worse. I'll throw on three layers of tape, and the secondary bevel I put on it will be almost invisible. It's unfortunate for a razor to have so much avoidable wear on it, and I'm just not going to add to it. Secondary bevels do have their place.

Good points, and a reminder to me that each razor is a unique case with it's own honing requirements and will be something i'll have to start considering. The three i honed yesterday where all in very good condition with little wear, hence why i was probably able to get a fairly neat and tidy narrow bevel.

I had a thin little 4/8th whose edge collapsed/crumbled/degraded after a shave, twice. Taping the spine (thrice) not only protected the spine from narrowing further (thus creating an overly acute angled edge) but obtusified the already over-acute angle.

Ummm. Yeah. And honing takes longer on wide bevels (honed surface area). Multiple reasons to tape.

Hey guys

well over the last few days i've final shave tested the 3 razors and i can happily report that i've had good smooth shaves off all three razors, they all became hair melters. Now if i can only repeat this independently in a separate session with a different razor i'll be getting somewhere.

to be balanced i do have a criticism:

The Grelot needs more work. I don't think i did enoug work at the 4k stage and as a result there is a teeny tiny micro micro nibble visible under the 20x loupe near the heel and one near the toe, with some scratching still mildly visible (darker lines faintly down the bevel). i think the nibbles are a result of the 1k scratches.

The Ti''s (which i'd dinged and had to take the edge back a fraction) bevel is marginal wider at the toe than heel, but it isn't wavey.

will go back and work on the 4k again until the nibbles are gone

I'll take the opportunity to ask, what's the gateway test of the 8k for you guys? mine has settled on a TPT up until i feel it''s getting keen enough then running the razor up my arm hair maybe a quarter inch off the skin to see if it catches and cuts. thats when i give it 20 on linen, 50 on latigo and gor for an HHT, if that works out its a quick shave on the cheek and if there's no tug or pulll it goes to the 12k naniwa and back to the strop. I've still to get some CrO2, but when i do it'll come after the 12k.

For me the tests are all visual. I don't go from 1K to 4K unless I have a good bevel. I can see that by checking with the 10x loupe. From there, it's mostly polishing for me. I don't worry much about residual scratches from prior stones. I've left them before and the shave wasn't affected. My normal progression now is 1K-4K-8K-16K then on to linen sometimes then usually 100 laps on leather. I have CrOx and have used it successfully, but the purist in my lets the stones and leather do their work. Personally, I've never seen a "glint" on the edge that was a result of residual scratches from 1K or 4K. It has always been a result of an incompletely set bevel. The edge should be invisible under light.

it wasn't a glint, although i do know what you mean, it was the tiniest nibble. I did have a good bevel as the 1k passed arm hair and TNT, and the loupe showed a nice even edge with the toothiness you would expect. i guess I visualise a trangle wave that gradually becomes a sine wave and less in amplitude as you go up the grits. If i don't do ann the work a particular stage needs then one or 2 of those triangles stay put and manifest as a what appears to be a nibble later on?

You're right though, the shave wasn't affected, but it's just that i don't feel i've done the best work i'm capable of on that edge. The other 2 razors are good all the way along the edge, so that's how i know i'm capable of it.

I've had some strange things happen, seemingly out of nowhere while honing. I've gone all the way through the progression to 12K or 16K, stropped 50 laps on leather, looked at the blade and it had a little nick in it. I'm pretty careful when doing this, so I know I didn't nick the blade or anything. On old razors that may have Devil's Spit and resulting pitting, I've had times when honing actually revealed a small pit in the edge. I even have some that are quite pitted up, and there is not much choice but to leave some of them if they are out toward the toe or heel. As long as the middle area is free of them, I can still have well with them. When these things happen it can be quite disconcerting, but it's not always necessarily your fault.

What I basically use is shaving arm hair, when it does that the TPT, until I get a nice and even bevel, then I usually hone through until the end, when I might try a HHT for fun.

Using a combi-coticule, and going by Bart's advise on coticule.be, after the bevel setting with proper slurry, I add a layer of tape for very light slurry and water, since there seems to be some difference in how coticules release their particles with slurry and water. Great results.

I always use one layer of tape at the bevel setting just because I don't want to mess up the spine with hone wear. personal preference, I guess.